How would you punish a 15 year old who told you to piss off?

[Sillawithans]

Stepson lives with me full time, no mother in the picture. Told all 4 children during the week that I wanted them to help around the house this morning and to not make plans.

He came down ready to go at nine, conversation went back and forth for a few mins, he left. I then messaged him and told him he was grounded when he got home and no pocket money for 2 weeks. He then told me to piss off and to get a grip. When I said you're grounded now he said oh ok, but I'm not.

Not gonna lie, I wanted to fucking throttle him.

I've removed his PlayStation, think I'll go for the phone later too, he will be grounded and no pocket money for at least two weeks.

He's turning 16 in June, I ordered him an IPhone just yesterday that he has wanted for a long time and cancelled it this morning, fuck that, now he can piss off. He didn't know about the phone as it was a surprise.

Little shit.

@Hellocatshome his mother homeschooled him

I have found escalating things with my DS at 15 didn’t work at all. It just caused more stress and frustration and tempers fraying.
I stuck to the original punishment and stuck to it. It is not easy and I really feel for you.

Christ on a bike, woman vents on MN about her teen (and he is her teen considering she’s taken on the role of mother for him and seems to be treating him exactly like a biological child), women gets attacked for venting and treating him like she would her own child, then quizzed repeatedly on his schooling, his origins, and whether or not she’s actually the devil incarnate

He sounds like a wee shite @Sillawithans but if it’s any consolation, so does every other 15 year old hope you’ve calmed down some, DD (11) recently told me she didn’t care when I grounded her. I also really wanted to throttle her!

He sounds like a brat. Not an overreaction imho but then in my house, the people paying the bills are in charge and the children behave.

If he wants you to piss off, best do that and take your money with you! If he wants iPhones and ps4 he needs to toe the line or go and earn the money to buy his own.

So he was homeschooled in his own language? How good was his English when he went to school at 7?

Is that 'homeschooled' = neglected him
Bad to worse
Poor poor kid
Please do not excessively punish him
I seriously think the best thing you could do is make up, have a talk eg

'Look. That went badly this morning. I got angry that you wouldn't help as you had agreed and maybe I went over the top and I am sorry for that but you should not tell me to piss off. I felt angry when you said that because it felt disrespectful and I would not speak to you like that. Can we put it behind us and make up.

And I would 100% give him a hug and I don't care if some people think that's soft. That will be what he needs.
I would get him the iPhone too.

@Stormer not sure where I said what a great parent I am.
@TatianaBis as long as I don't call him a little shit to his face, I think I'm safe enough venting on here
@CovoidOfAllHumanity I won't be reading any books but I will do as a previous poster suggested and watch the you tube videos and listen to the podcasts.

Ok
I am an old school books person but I'm sure videos and podcasts would be as good if that's your thing.

I think his dad needs to tell him to show you some respect to be honest and let him know he means it. My eldest is 25 and ex and I were pretty shit hot on not letting the kids talk shit to either one of us.

I’d say what your ds has done is within the ‘normal’ range of behaviour for a taking the piss teenager. However it all needs dealing with and your DH needs to be involved.

I agree with a lot of other posters that you over very much reacted and that this is unlikely to be an effective way to deal with a teenager (even less one who has been rejected by his mum). You also come across as dogmatic and argumentative in your subsequent responses on here and seem to think you are entirely reasonable despite numerous responses suggesting alternative ways of thinking about and dealing with the situation. It feels as though you are an authoritarian type of parent who does not like to be crossed and this is likely the wrong way to deal with this 15/16 year old who is currently rebelling against authority (bunking off school, etc). Plus, calling him 'a little shit' on a public forum is horrible. You can mutter it under your breath or complain to his dad but in public seems really mean.

It's worth noting that he didn't tell you to piss off to your face or in response to being asked to do housework but after your OTT text message.

I definitely agree that the pre teens/ teens should be asked to do regular chores in their own house. Slightly confused by your posts as to whether this is what happens or whether this was an unusual request. I think your instance that it was done at 9am on a Saturday morning was unreasonable. Chores, yes, but some negotiation and flexibility in terms of timing, etc.
I just had a conversation with one of my children about the same age and we negotiated about when the particular chore was done. I trust him that he will do it but he likes to procrastinate a bit in the hope that it might go away (typical teenage boy).

I would personally deal with it in these sort of ways, depending on the individual child and my relationship with them (quoting other posters):

'I would try to have a talk with him and tell him that it really upset you that he would go back on an agreement and speak to you like that but you'd like to hear his side of the story. What was it that was so important at 9am? Does he regret what he said and maybe he thinks he should apologise.'

or this:

I would've said "fine, go to the skate park but you're doing it when you get back" then when he got back "don't forget you've got your chores to do...... "
If he refused at that point then he loses the PS4/phone until it's done. I just think you went in all guns blazing and it's hard to back down then, on both sides.

I have taken both of these approaches with my children and your sort of approach with getting angry and over reacting (notably, this was with my eldest). Remaining calm and adult and commanding authority by behaving better than the child work considerably better.

I have a teen about the same age. They do get hormonal surges, and behave like real shits on occasion. Whenever I can, I try to diffuse it with humour.

If ds did what yours has done, the next time he asked me for something I would mirror his behaviour, in a parodying way. So in this case I would say ‘nah, not doing that’ and if he insisted I would tell him to piss off.

If he doesn’t get it immediately I would repeat it until he does. Ds usually laughs the first time round and apologises for having been rude, or whatever he did.

Of course you can vent
Nothing wrong with that
But a different perspective is what Mumsnet is good for sometimes
It's not an echo chamber and thank God for that.

Thanks for clarifying. 15 year olds are hard work and it sounds like this one has a lot on his plate and didn't have an easy early life. I think there should be consequences for what he said.

@Ju11tne

Calm down OP. Are your other children younger? Don’t think that yours won’t ever say the same.

I think you have set a punishment and that is fair enough. However don’t take it too far and start taking other things that’s unfair. Leave it!!

Of course they’ll say the same if there are no repercussions for their older brother. Mine is 19 and has never sworn at me. This is really not normal behaviour until you accept it

@TatianaBis his English was good as he lived here from 3 months, but I'm not sure to be honest. He would have picked it up from playing with friend's.
@CovoidOfAllHumanity yes neglectful, in my opinion anyway I'll do all of what you say of course. I'm a talker rather than a screamer. He won't be getting a hug though, he'd rather die than get one of those

@stuckinaditch please read the thread, no time was given for this morning.......
@CatherinedeBourgh yes, I've done this before too

Absolutely no way a child would be kept back two school years. One occasionally but not two.

Surprised how many are accepting of a 15 year old telling a parent or guardian to piss off. No way I would have accepted that from any of mine. He needs to learn to be more respectful and that verbal abuse isnt going to be tolerated.

I have a 15 yo boy. My son has never told me to piss off but has refused to do things when asked, has agreed to do things and then not done them (sometimes realising, sometimes just forgetting) has shrugged shoulders and grunted at requests ( a personal pet hate). He also knows how to apologise. He knows (most of the time) that if he pushes boundaries then firmer ones will be put in place. They're still a work in progress at this stage but then I think I am too - life is an ongoing learning experience.

This morning, this is a complete proud mum gloat, without being asked he tidied the lounge, did some washing up and vacuumed whilst I took his younger sister and dad (step) to town to get some essentials. Eldest was on a very rare trip out with biological dad.

If DS2 is rude, doesn't do what he's agreed too, then after attempting dialogue, if its appropriate, tech is a good first port of call. Control of the house broadband comes with the ability to put time limiters on individual devices. No shifting tech around, just a fixed automatic cut off time. I'm not out to humiliate but DS likes to online game with a few friends from school in the evening after homework. Him just dissapearing mid game because the timer has run out due to restricting internet access has quite a significant effect. I've only ever had to physically do it once. Subsequently I've just told him a time.

The knowledge that we play the game of life and muck in even when its not for immediate personal gain, even when we'd much rather be doing something else is a useful but tough one to learn.

The other deal I have with DS is if he runs beyond the agreed turn off time then he looses half an hour of the next day for every five minutes. Its getting him to take personal responsibility for his time keeping - set his own alarms to turn off etc.

Not every method works for every child and none of them come with a rule book. My three are all phenomolly different characters and all have things I absolutely love and the ability to push my buttons - often ones I didn't even realise I had!

[quote ihearttc]@LondonElle

But he wouldn’t say it at school, he is a lovely, kind, funny and clever boy who just happened to be really frustrated at that moment. He told me to “fuck off” and leave him alone and then promptly burst into tears cause he is so unbelievably stressed with the farce of exams etc this year. Why would I not hug him?[/quote]
You can see how that was not the same situation right? ⚖️ On the one hand you had immediate remorse on the other OP did not. No immediate tears that required a hug.🤦🏾‍♀️

Not sure what I would do about the punishments as you have already issued them. If he was willing to talk to me pleasantly about what happened and apologise then I think I would stand them down. I certainly would not add more.

I never go with grounding as I just think it's unenforceable so I would possibly retract that one but keep the docked pocket money and removed PlayStation if I thought something was necessary although 2 weeks seems a long time.

@MouseholeCat

FGS... punish?! No wonder you get a "piss off" reaction.

YABU. He's 15, start by having a conversation with him about what his plans are and what you would like him to help you with on Saturday and when he can do it.

He's old enough to plan chores around outings, but he needs those expectations set. If he says no at that point you can then establish boundaries or consequences. e.g. "Before I give you your allowance this week, I just want to make sure we get x, y and z done in the house- when on Saturday could you do those things?"

Also grounding a teen by text when they've already gone out is a totally ineffective strategy. He's just going to avoid coming home know, and you've primed your next interaction to be negative.

Why can't he stole that just this once he's needed at a certain time to do a certain thing for the family?

He gets housed, clothed and fed - asking for an hour at a set time isn't akin to being sent down the mines.

Some of the MNers on here spend far too much time oust footing around their teens and negotiating.

They are going to have a shock in the real world.

Before I had a teenager I'd have thought I'd have grounded forever a teenager who swore at me. Now I'd completely ignore it tbh. Pick your battles

Jesus there are some ineffectual wet blankets on here.

Being sworn AT is not something I'd accept or ignore from anyone and certainly not from a child, much less my own child.

These are not toddlers where ignoring is the best approach because their tiny brains forget the swearword they heard 🙄 If your teen is allowed to swear at you and treat you like shit because you don't react to it, they'll keep doing it.

I'm not a monster and realise teens will act out, try to impress friends etc. I heared my 13 year old drop the f bomb a few weeks ago, conversationally on the x box when he clearly thought I was out of earshot. He got no more than a raised eyebrow and warning that we don't accept language in the house. He was very red faced to have been caught and I've not heared it since.

But being sworn AT is a different level to general swearing and conveys all sorts of disrespect and entitlement. Not in my house, not from a child, not now and not ever. It won't ever be tolerated.

@bathsh3ba yet that's the case

[quote Sillawithans]@stuckinaditch please read the thread, no time was given for this morning.......
@CatherinedeBourgh yes, I've done this before too [/quote]
@Sillawithans
Sorry, I have to admit I haven't read every post. However, the rest of my comments, which you have chosen not to comment on at all, still stand.