How would you punish a 15 year old who told you to piss off?

[Sillawithans]

Stepson lives with me full time, no mother in the picture. Told all 4 children during the week that I wanted them to help around the house this morning and to not make plans.

He came down ready to go at nine, conversation went back and forth for a few mins, he left. I then messaged him and told him he was grounded when he got home and no pocket money for 2 weeks. He then told me to piss off and to get a grip. When I said you're grounded now he said oh ok, but I'm not.

Not gonna lie, I wanted to fucking throttle him.

I've removed his PlayStation, think I'll go for the phone later too, he will be grounded and no pocket money for at least two weeks.

He's turning 16 in June, I ordered him an IPhone just yesterday that he has wanted for a long time and cancelled it this morning, fuck that, now he can piss off. He didn't know about the phone as it was a surprise.

Little shit.

It does seem like the 'piss off' has really pushed a lot of buttons for you.

I would be so much more bothered about being out until 11pm and skiving school. Those would be a much bigger issue for me than refusing to do chores and saying piss off.

Ask yourself why a couple of heated words is causing you to react so hugely when the other (IMHO much worse) stuff didn't. You seem very afraid he won't respect you or appreciate you. Because he might want to go back to his mum? Or why??

I wonder how many of the posters who are saying you are harsh have teenagers!!!

You all have exceptionally low standards if you think a fully grown teenager of sixteen telling you to piss off warrants a small punishments.

He wants you to piss off? Fine. PS4 that you bought is gone, phone you pay for is gone, any other tech, disconnect his tv from the internet, no treats or extras on the food shop until he apologises and means it.

Privileges are earnt through good behaviour. Where is mum/dad? If that had been me I would have been absolutely thrown from the banister for such a lack of respect.

@purplefoxglove I don't expect a teen to be grateful. I expect them to not tell me to piss off.

[quote Sillawithans]@NewMatress please read previous comments. My house is huge, no way could I clean it top to bottom in 2.5 hours, I wished. It would be filthy if I only cleaned for 2.5 hours[/quote]
Asking children to give up an hour of their time in a week to do some housework is not unreasonable. However, can your stepson not do his jobs another day?

I'd have been totally gobsmacked if mine had ever told me to piss off but I've never heard them say that or swear. They probably do, casually, with friends and at work. They are not angry people, nor amI, and if I had asked either to give me a hand for an hour, they would have, but I never did (and none of us would be active at 9am on a day off). There again I didn't care much about housework, it was far easier to pay someone to come in and do it while I was at work.

Get his dad to drum into him that saying, "Piss off", to you is not on the cards.

I do feel sorry for the boy having missed so much schooling. He's doing well to hold his own at the moment.

This will pass.

I work with teens and have a couple of my own.

What works with one will almost certainly not work with another.

Rule of thumb is to make consequences as immediate as possible. Only one consequence for one 'crime', don't keep going on about it and make the consequence related to the crime (as much as possible).

The biggest trouble here OP is that he pushed your buttons and he will know he has pushed them because of the way you will react. That's game over. You lose.

This isn't about not allowed to be angry or cross - it can be good for kids to see this but, an over reaction is showing you lost your shit. That's a powerful position for a teen to be in (and for some it's quite scary for them to realise they can make a parent lose it).

I've managed to get mine to 18 and 20, without ever being told to piss off and I'd be furious if they did. I also work with troubled teens where we are regularly told to piss off.

My observations:

• it's not his fault you've got a huge house and he had no say in the decree re when it would be cleaned. Always, when my two started presenting more challenging behaviour, whether that was at 8 or 16, the answer was to give them more responsibility and control, not less. Of course he should he doing his bit around the house but he doesn't have to do it to your timetable. Tell him what needs doing, give him a deadline and leave him to it.

• Whatever trauma he has faced in the past that has resulted in no mother on the scene will have had far more impact than you're allowing. Of course that doesn't mean he can be rude, but it does mean you need to make some effort to understand.

• no good will ever come from trying to have important conversations by text. What on earth did you expect, saying hewas grounded, in the heat if the moment, by text? You're supposed to be the grown up.

cancelling a gift he knew nothing about is no punishment at all and just nasty.

Yep
Got a teen this age and a pre teen
And I parent them exactly as I've said on this thread and we have no major issues
She whines about chores but on the whole does them as does her brother.
She is sometimes late back but not 11pm
She has never skived school that I know of and I would find that a very big deal if she did. That would be major punishment time for me.

She's probably told me to piss off at least once. I probably told her to piss off back. I mean that's not something I'm exactly recommending but IRL it will have happened. Then we both flounced off, calmed down, apologised.

Seems more positive to me than weeks of grounding and ongoing conflict.

Seen that he’s also in year eight. He probably sees his friends acting a little more childishly and thinks he will get away with it. Nope, no way.

Such a lack of respect these days in a lot of teenagers. I saw a video of kids effing and blinding at Asda staff in the supermarket and it went viral, his dad took him back and made him apologise. It was earnt 100% - natural consequences at its finest.

I fully do not support parenting through fear but when a child is not extremely out of line they need teaching. This would be one of the few circumstances I would lose it.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity I was bothered about him being late but gave him the benefit of the doubt as he had to get two buses and I know one of those routes is notoriously bad. To be fair to him he did contact me and say he might be late and I said ok, be careful. I'm not worried about him going to his mother, this will never happen. It wasn't so much the piss off, it was all of it. Not sure where you're pulling I seem very afraid from.

Huge over reaction from you here OP.
You are right not to accept being told to piss off but your reaction is very disproportionate and inappropriate and will be counterproductive. You cannot get into a nuclear war when someone tells you to piss off, it's no way to manage a relationship.

I would have started by having a chat with him and asking him why he didn't pitch in and say how it made you feel. I'd ask him to suggest a solution.

I’m not surprised he told you to piss off. Something tells me he’s not the first person you’ve met to do the same.

I can’t believe you’re getting such a hard time OP. You haven’t verbally abused him, you haven’t beaten him, you’ve shown there’s consequences for being irresponsible and disrespectful to you. Don’t listen to the posters criticising you. Teenagers who do chores and are taught swearing at their parents is not acceptable will grow up to be nicer people.

[quote Sillawithans]@TatianaBis I won't be getting a cleaner. They were not randomly told. Please read the thread [/quote]
I read your thread thanks, carefully it’s in your OP.

Ok. Maybe I'm wrong
It does seem as though a lot of people would be more upset about piss off than I am. I just can't get what's the huge deal on that. Actions speak louder than words to me and a few heat of the moment things are easily forgiven if the overall relationship is good in my experience.
I'm sure I told my own parents to piss off a few times at that age or worse but it didn't do us any harm. We were always very close.

I do think he needs counselling about his mum. How sad must that be to know your mum doesn't bother with you? You telling him she loves him probably sounds a bit hollow when she clearly doesn't act like she does. That kind of rejection and loss is the kind of thing that messes people up.
He might project his anger about that onto you as his mother figure.

I'm honestly going to cry if I have to keep repeating myself. Of course it's not his fault I have a big house. He wasn't cleaning the whole house. 4 children were asked to help out with the kitchen and hallway, there would have been little for each of them to do had 4 done it. It was just sweeping the floor, putting bits of wood to one side, it would not have taken a full hour.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

You say his mum is not in the picture That's a big deal for a 15yr old It would not be greatly surprising if at this age he started to have questions and sadness about that or if he took it out on you.

You do need to have an honest think about your attitude to him too. There is an overwhelming sense that he 'owes you' and 'should be grateful' in your posts. Does he sense that you think he should be grateful for you 'taking him on'?

I fear that things are not going to be easy for him and you in the years ahead and that you need to have a serious think about how you manage this and involve his father as well.

Agreed.

OP calls him a ‘little shit’, and swears about him.

@Sillawithans

I'm honestly going to cry if I have to keep repeating myself. Of course it's not his fault I have a big house. He wasn't cleaning the whole house. 4 children were asked to help out with the kitchen and hallway, there would have been little for each of them to do had 4 done it. It was just sweeping the floor, putting bits of wood to one side, it would not have taken a full hour.

So why did he have to do it when you decreed? You can argue all you like but no one respects a dictator. Whether at home, school or work, you have to "manage" by consent. He could have done his chores at any point during the week.

What was he doing at 9am anyway. As PP said, something's going on that was very important to him. He's had a rough time and is perhaps troubled at home, that makes him vulnerable. There are bigger issues here than what he said to you.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity he has counselling through school. I wanted him to be able to talk about his mother with a stranger in case he ever thought he would upset me in missing his mum. I've been in his exact shoes, worse shoes than him in fact. I agree it's hollow to an extent but I'm being as honest as I can with him in telling him she loves him but doesn't know how to fully show up. But he's not stupid, he sees what I do for all the children and that his mother does nothing. Very sad for him indeed.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

Ok. Maybe I'm wrong It does seem as though a lot of people would be more upset about piss off than I am. I just can't get what's the huge deal on that. Actions speak louder than words to me and a few heat of the moment things are easily forgiven if the overall relationship is good in my experience. I'm sure I told my own parents to piss off a few times at that age or worse but it didn't do us any harm. We were always very close.

I do think he needs counselling about his mum. How sad must that be to know your mum doesn't bother with you? You telling him she loves him probably sounds a bit hollow when she clearly doesn't act like she does. That kind of rejection and loss is the kind of thing that messes people up.
He might project his anger about that onto you as his mother figure.

No I think you’ve read it right. I think the same.

I’d be more concerned that he doesn’t have a mother around. He’s had to acclimatise from a different country and school system and for behind, that’s tough. Was English his first language I wonder?

OP seems more concerned with cleaning a house she cba to clean herself or get a cleaner.*

*All for kids doing chores, but it works better if they have a regular rota.

NewMatress she explained that already, there is dust in the house from work being done and the longer it was left the more it spread.
What WAS he doing at 9am is a good question. Avoiding the work he didn't want to do appears to be the answer.

I don't think you are being harsh, OP, you are parenting him.

Those of us who are less relaxed in our parenting have been there, done that, and as my ds is now 25, and a nice human being, with whom I like spending time, are seeing the results of standing our ground.

Women, be they Mums or stepmums are not there to facilitate the lives of young people; they are not there to be told to 'piss off' and then to carry on doing the chores that make the family home run. If the OPs lad feels he can talk to a woman like that and get away with it once; it will get repeated. I wouldn't be happy if my lad felt he could talk to women like that.

@NewMatress the whole point of the kids doing the hallway and kitchen were so I could fly around with the Hoover upstairs while they were in the one spot. I just wanted to get all of the dust up from the stairs. Saves me hoovering and people walking around the house undoing what I've just done. He said he wa going out early as it was going to rain at 1 and can't skate in the rain. Still waiting for it to rain.
I'm not a dictator, no one was dictated to. Had he told me he already had plans I would have said no bother off you go. No one was told they couldn't go out unless the kitchen etc was done. I asked them during the week if they would help me sat morning and they said yes. He did not have chores as such. I've said this a million times now. He's not troubled at home, he just wanted to go to the skate park, didn't want to help so off he went.

YANBU. Lack of parenting is why we have so many feral teenagers around these days. I would be fuming if a 15 year old living in my house told me to piss off, and yes there would be consequences. Good on you.

@Sillawithans

Not an over reaction at all, I will not be told to piss off by anyone, let alone a boy of almost 16 that I cook and clean for.

A couple of weeks ago he took the piss with something and just this week refused to get out of bed and go to school as he had a tummy ache. I came home from work at half three and he'd gone to the skate park with his friends and left the front and back doors unlocked.

He’s testing the boundaries but taking all that off him is way over the top. I would take off him the thing that will hit him the hardest, ie play station.

Whatever you threaten has got be sustainable. Grounding him, taking his pocket money, cancelling his phone and taking his play station also gives you nowhere to go in terms of escalating your punishment.

I would definitely pull back and give one sanction. I say that as the mother of a now 20 year old boy.