How would you punish a 15 year old who told you to piss off?

[Sillawithans]

Stepson lives with me full time, no mother in the picture. Told all 4 children during the week that I wanted them to help around the house this morning and to not make plans.

He came down ready to go at nine, conversation went back and forth for a few mins, he left. I then messaged him and told him he was grounded when he got home and no pocket money for 2 weeks. He then told me to piss off and to get a grip. When I said you're grounded now he said oh ok, but I'm not.

Not gonna lie, I wanted to fucking throttle him.

I've removed his PlayStation, think I'll go for the phone later too, he will be grounded and no pocket money for at least two weeks.

He's turning 16 in June, I ordered him an IPhone just yesterday that he has wanted for a long time and cancelled it this morning, fuck that, now he can piss off. He didn't know about the phone as it was a surprise.

Little shit.

I always remember an old super nanny episode where the kid is naughty, mum goes mad takes away literally everything the kid has, clears his room. super nanny says great well he’s got nothing left to loose now so he’s really going to go to town on you.

I find this with my ds who has just turned 16. I’m calm, he’s calmer.. not completely but it’s a much less tense situation. Teenagers are hard work, but you need to pick your battles. So you could’ve gone with.. it’s not ideal that you’re going out now but if the plans can’t be broken, what time will you be home? I’ll make sure we leave you x y and z to do when you get in so you’ve done your bit like the other kids.

Honestly? I would just raise my eyebrows, give my son a very long hard stare and tell him that is not how we speak to each other in this house.

Though it has to be said that neither my 17 or 18 yr old have ever sworn at me.

I agree with the others that escalating punishments like this is really not helpful. A conversation about exactly when he was going to do the chores would have been a more sensible starting point then instant groundings etc. Bit tricky now you have already started to go down that path...

@LadyDanburysCane not confused, he won't get anywhere with junior cert results. Leaving cert is equivalent to gcse's in terms of needing those results to get into higher education. You need a certain amount of points.

I agree “meadow”. Talking will be more effective. Disappointment in behaviour is very effective if they are normally good kids. He needs to be remorseful because he wants to be. Punishing will make him more resentful and less remorseful.

@MeadowLines

It's funny how posters who seem to agree with a reactive style of parenting think that those of us who choose to parent in a calmer way have rude and misbehaving children. For me it's the opposite, I have children for whom I am told every year they are of the best behaved in school and are kind and mindful of others. I have friends who are reactive parents and they are constantly struggling to find sanctions that will have any effect (exactly like in the OP) and looking desperately for any way to produce the behaviour they want, and it doesnt work. It's an old fashioned way of thinking that parents command respect regardless of whether they behave well - parents are allowed bad moods and off days but woah betide any child who should have a down mood and react badly to something. What we need is more compassion and well earned respect in this world

You couldnt be more wrong. Generally I am a calm parent, I actively try to deescelate but sometimes it simply doesnt work.

It was described as a power struggle earlier and it really is, with my teenage son trying to be the one in charge of me! If he got a job, did the housework, shopping cleaning, paid the bills etc then I would cheerfully let him. But what he actually wants is me in my place doing everything for him and him doing exactly what he wants. I deserve respect for what I do for him, and I will bloody well demand it if I am being shown such a shocking lack of respect as the OP was today. Sometimes you have to shock them out of bad behaviour. The teenage years are minefield for all involved and the occasional hardline punishment is not going to create a sociopath.

I am sure that you would rather I make sure that this type of attitude is stamped out fast before he starts a relationship with one of your daughters?

@MeadowLines

It's funny how posters who seem to agree with a reactive style of parenting think that those of us who choose to parent in a calmer way have rude and misbehaving children. For me it's the opposite, I have children for whom I am told every year they are of the best behaved in school and are kind and mindful of others. I have friends who are reactive parents and they are constantly struggling to find sanctions that will have any effect (exactly like in the OP) and looking desperately for any way to produce the behaviour they want, and it doesnt work. It's an old fashioned way of thinking that parents command respect regardless of whether they behave well - parents are allowed bad moods and off days but woah betide any child who should have a down mood and react badly to something. What we need is more compassion and well earned respect in this world

Exactly.

Racking up punishment on punishment is not a sign of authority it indicates loss of control.

@MaryB90

I disagree with posters who have said he is almost an adult, errm at 15 and displaying such behaviour? he is still a child that needs discipline, rules and authority!

Also the pp that said you're only 15 once and he should have the weekend to himself. Wow this is why there is so many little shits about these days!! If they feel like they can do anything with no respect for anyone.

You should get his dad involved in this. I think you were right to cancel his new iPhone, still get him a present but smaller one, buy him an iPhone when he starts showing you respect.
You and the dad should think of a punishment together.

I would never dream of speaking to my mother like this, there is no excuses, don't let him treat you like that.

Agree

@LondonElle

So you think most teenagers don’t say things like that to their mates etc when out?

He (and most other 16 year olds) are really really struggling at the moment. He was frustrated and lashed out in a moment of stress/frustration. Not sure what people expect 16 year olds to say...”oh Mummy dearest, be a good chap and remove yourself from my room as I don’t particularly want to talk to you at this moment”. For the most part their brains aren’t wired like that so will just say the first thing that comes into their heads. That doesn’t make him or the OP’s son a bad person, it makes him a teenager who doesn’t always think properly before engaging their mouths. Hence why I can’t get worked up about it.

Did you ask him if he was free before you demanded he stay home and do chores?

I totally appreciate the work needed doing but he's old enough that he should have his plans taken into account as well.

@MeadowLines

It's funny how posters who seem to agree with a reactive style of parenting think that those of us who choose to parent in a calmer way have rude and misbehaving children. For me it's the opposite, I have children for whom I am told every year they are of the best behaved in school and are kind and mindful of others. I have friends who are reactive parents and they are constantly struggling to find sanctions that will have any effect (exactly like in the OP) and looking desperately for any way to produce the behaviour they want, and it doesnt work. It's an old fashioned way of thinking that parents command respect regardless of whether they behave well - parents are allowed bad moods and off days but woah betide any child who should have a down mood and react badly to something. What we need is more compassion and well earned respect in this world

It's not a competition. We all do it differently.

OP there are two possible outcomes to this depending on whether he allows you any dialogue on what happened. Many 15 y/os behave in this way. Too many sure, but at least it's not just him, so it's really not likely to be purely a result of your s parenting.
However, many of them will back track later and come and apologise, and that is really what you need to wait for, so that you get an opportunity to accept an apology, and then also make your point about what is acceptable plus whatever sanctions.
But if he doesn't show any acknowledgement of doing wrong, surely you need to take this up with his father? Does he back you up? That is what's needed. Teen dysfunction is hard to improve if you don't have a united front.

Really

It’s just different style of parenting. Do you think in countries where it’s far more cultural to shout and loose you temper children are worse behaved

While I agree that taking away everything isn’t great losing your temper happens at times staying calm and taking it over also doesn’t always work I had this I played along with it while thinking oh do fuck off. People thought butter wouldn’t melt in my mouth I was just sneaky

@DancesWithTortoises I agree!
Just to reiterate that he had no plans for today, I asked all of the children and we agreed one hour on Saturday morning.
I know the friends he's with, all nice kids. He just didn't want to go to school. I disagree that I'm vindictive. He won't know about the phone, I'm not signing myself up to a 12 month contract for someone who tells me to piss off. I did say to him that we agreed on this, he said nah, I'm not doing it, I don't care, over and over. I was very calm, I'm not a shouty person. He has all the freedom in the world and he gets that because I didn't when I was younger. This week he's strolled in the door twice gone 11 when he was asked to be home on time.
I will not tolerate a disrespectful teenager, some things I let go, of course I do but being told to piss off, not on your nelly.

Not an overreaction at all - why did you post in AIBU then?

This was all a massive overreaction all teenagers push boundaries let alone ones who have been displaced from their home country, had their mother leave the picture and put in a class of children where some of them will be 12 when he is about to turn 16 (this is why holding back children in younger year groups is usually a bad idea).

Have you considered PACE parenting, rather than defaulting to quite punitive methods?

I can say with almost certainty my son swears out in public he's far from a saint but I wouldn't have him telling me or anyone in authority to fuck off... I just wouldn't!

Before I had a teenager I'd have thought I'd have grounded forever a teenager who swore at me. Now I'd completely ignore it tbh. Pick your battles .

How many times you gonna punish him. Grounded, no pocket money, no PlayStation, cancelled bday present, take phone away. Surely 1 or 2 of these things are enough. Not surprised he's telling you to p... off.

I will not tolerate a disrespectful teenager, some things I let go, of course I do but being told to piss off, not on your nelly. I won't either but I don't think punishing will fix it. You need to be more in control than that and to a 15 year old punishment will always look vindictive and so you will have lost the respect so clearly would like to demand.

People like you shouldn't be step mothers your being very vindictive and not descalating the issue, instead making it worse, , i cant imagine how having no mother involved must effect him, if i was his dad i would really consider my relationship with you. maybe you should leave as you clearly don't like him.
Teenagers are hard! yes!, even in the best of situations, i can imagine hes difficult, but your overreacting.

@Dishwashersaurous

Why has he been held back two years at school?

A 15 year old should be in year 10.

Or he is actually 13, which would probably get a different reaction

A 15 year old who is 16 in June should be in Year 11. That’s highly relevant. Year 11 DC have been under so much GCSE stress and chopping and changing of how they’re being assessed, that’s it’s demonstrably having an adverse effect on some of their MH and behaviour. So if the step-son is in Year 11, it would be remiss not to view his behaviour in that context.

I deserve respect for what I do for him, and I will bloody well demand it if I am being shown such a shocking lack of respect as the OP was today. Sometimes you have to shock them out of bad behaviour.

Can you not see that your heightened emotional response, swearing, talk of ‘shocking lack of respect’ and trying to shock him back - simply escalates tensions?

I’m not surprised you’re caught in a power struggle as you’ve helped to create it.

Either he respects you or he doesn’t. If he does, 1 piss off doesn’t change that, if he doesn’t, you’ve got much bigger problems than that.

@MeadowLines

It's funny how posters who seem to agree with a reactive style of parenting think that those of us who choose to parent in a calmer way have rude and misbehaving children. For me it's the opposite, I have children for whom I am told every year they are of the best behaved in school and are kind and mindful of others. I have friends who are reactive parents and they are constantly struggling to find sanctions that will have any effect (exactly like in the OP) and looking desperately for any way to produce the behaviour they want, and it doesnt work. It's an old fashioned way of thinking that parents command respect regardless of whether they behave well - parents are allowed bad moods and off days but woah betide any child who should have a down mood and react badly to something. What we need is more compassion and well earned respect in this world

This.

This week he's strolled in the door twice gone 11 when he was asked to be home on time.

This is where the punishment needed to be focused OP, get things in perspective.

@cupsofcoffee I did not demand anything. As they were all eating dinner on Wednesday I think it was I asked if they could all help out on Saturday morning, they all said yes.
No one lost their temper this morning, he came down ready, I reminded him we all planned to tidy up, he said nah, I'm not doing it blah blah. I said how is that fair on everyone else and he said but I wanna go to the skate park. I tried to reason with him, he kept repeating but I'm not doing it over and over then walked out the door saying I don't care. No one raised their voice, this is not how I go on with my children.

It’s all part if the bigger picture isn’t it.

It’s about how you relate to each other on a regular basis and the level of respect shown to each other/lack of respect and battle that goes on.

If this is how he treats you and this is how respond, these are your norms of behaviour and it’s hard for either if you to get out of the cycle.

In the end, you are the grown up and so you have to find new ways to address this and deal with it. Sometimes, over an individual incident, it involves changing tack, talking about it with him and saying you have decided the who,e thing was regrettable. You can say that what he did wasn’t right but how you reacted didn’t help, so you’d like to rewind and talk about it.

Can you talk about general principles and find some common ground that both feed into so he doesn’t feel he’s treated like a child and told what to do. So this can involve talking about household chores and understanding they need doing and everyone needs to contribute. And then it can involve talking about what the best approach is...is it to set aside an hour when everyone does it, or is it better for each person to say when they will do their hour? Make clear that if he prefers the latter, once he says when he will do it, he needs to or within a set window.

The question is, are you 2 able to have such a conversation or are you both so cross it can’t happen or will descend into a row? Can you talk about how you speak to each other and acceptable language and respect and how to express disagreement and what he thinks sensible responses from you are if he crosses the line?

Sometimes you have to give a little ground and be the bigger grown up person rather than being determined to save face and hold the line that you set (perhaps unwisely). You need to tell him the things you cannot compromise on (it cannot be a very long list at all) and explain how imparting they are to you and he needs to know that. But you also need to show you are willing to listen and to see that on most things some discussion and flexibility can be possible.

I deserve respect for what I do for him, and I will bloody well demand it if I am being shown such a shocking lack of respect as the OP was today. Sometimes you have to shock them out of bad behaviour. OP the best you're going to get is superficial respect aka fear, no one respects someone who behaves as you do - respect is earnt - you are expecting a teen to be grateful you have a lot to learn - teens are never grateful. I really think you should have considered your role before taking on a stepchild.