How would you punish a 15 year old who told you to piss off?

[Sillawithans]

Stepson lives with me full time, no mother in the picture. Told all 4 children during the week that I wanted them to help around the house this morning and to not make plans.

He came down ready to go at nine, conversation went back and forth for a few mins, he left. I then messaged him and told him he was grounded when he got home and no pocket money for 2 weeks. He then told me to piss off and to get a grip. When I said you're grounded now he said oh ok, but I'm not.

Not gonna lie, I wanted to fucking throttle him.

I've removed his PlayStation, think I'll go for the phone later too, he will be grounded and no pocket money for at least two weeks.

He's turning 16 in June, I ordered him an IPhone just yesterday that he has wanted for a long time and cancelled it this morning, fuck that, now he can piss off. He didn't know about the phone as it was a surprise.

Little shit.

2nd year is the 10th year of education in Ireland, out of 14 in total. The GCSCs are roughly the equivalent of the Junior Cert and the A-levels of the Leaving Cert. Children usually start school at 4.5 /5.5 year old.

The child in question is approximately 1 year behind, in the Irish educational system, but not significantly so.

Some of the reactions on here are incredible. Such low standards!
Of course a teen needs a consequence for telling a parent to piss off and disobeying them!
Christ, no wonder teacher's jobs are so difficult!

I think the fact the OP is a step parent is by the by.
She is the only mother figure the child has. He lives in the household along with the other children. IMO it is better she treats DSS the same as her own biological children. She’s not overstepping by asking the child to help with some chores for an hour out of his weekend. If he had plans in the morning he should have perhaps told her that when she requested that the children help out with chores in the morning. He was disrespectful instead telling her to piss off and left the house. I can’t believe those saying he should have no repercussions for his actions! If he did that at school or in the workplace when asked to carry out a task he wouldn’t get very far at all in life!

@mermaidsariel he has great school attendance, just wanted a day off with his friends to go to the skate park.

OP,

There is no way a teen telling me to piss off wouldn't enact the nuclear button.

I appreciate other parents accept their children speaking to them as if they were something on their shoe but there is no way any son of mine would get away with it.

I would expect a genuine apology.
The PS4 would be disconnected for a period and he had better do some jobs about the place to make up.

He sounds like he is going down a path you really don't want.

Pull him back now.

IMO your husband should be firmly stepping in with a how dare you speak to my wife like that.

He needs taking in hand, today, firmly.

@ChrisWitlessPatrickUnbalanced

I don't punish- I have never punished my kids- not once.

Ok, that's too far the other way 😂

Not really. Consequences and punishment are 2 different things. One is a natural result of a specific behaviour that requires you to avoid the behaviour in the future. Punishment normally doesn't have a natural connection, and causes the behaviour to change in connection to the punisher, not the bad behaviour.

Learning by punishment leads to resentment, keeping secrets and behaving badly but in a way that they're not caught by the punisher.

Learning by consequence means that even when a parent isn't around, you won't repeat the behaviour because you're afraid of the consequence, not getting into trouble as such.

Consequences need clear expectations and firm boundaries to work though. And discussions together rather than a parent dictating or being overly authoritarian and controlling.

Good for you OP.

God this thread is an eye opener! Tells OP to piss off, and backchats that he's not grounded when she tells him he is and...

Awww give him his present phone
Work around him and his plans
Give him a choice
Discuss the options with him (and what if the answer to that is "I'm not doing it, piss off" what then eh?)
It's abuse

He had NO plans, he just didn't want to do it. This is the same kid who clearly played truant and then buggered off to the park with his mates leaving the house unsecured.

Yes there's using a slegehammer to crack a nut but then there's being a complete and utter mug.

The only thing I do agree with is where is his dad in all of this?

Well, tahats that cleared up. At least I understand now why a 13 year old thought it was fine to tell me in school this week that I was fucking pissing him off, after asking him twice to put his phone away and telling him to come off a gaming website on the PC.

I'm in Ireland too so understand about the school years. I have a ds just turned 16 and he can be a moody arse at times, however we tend not to punish. There are relevant consequences which can involve taking away tech or not seeing friends etc and we explain why the behaviour isnt acceptable.
For something of a similar nature recently we asked him why he thought it was ok to speak to me this way, both me and his dad had words. We made him do the chore still and added an extra chore on top. He has been an angel since
We found when he was younger and we tried the escalating punishment that you seem to be doing, it didnt work.
Teenagers find it hard to back down and own up when faced with increasing levels of punishment, it gets their backs up and makes them react to you more. If you stop and explain, and carry through with making them do the chore, but explain and show how much it has put you all out they are more likely to come to an understanding of how it wasnt right.

In your situation I think I would hold off on the housework until he comes back, even if it means dinner being late and everyone being hungry for 30 mins while you all work together - then all sit down and eat together and enjoy the dust free house. If he takes too long doing his jobs then his dinner will be cold by the time he's finished, and that is the consequence of him delaying.

I'm often accused of having high standards. I'm beginning to think it's actually far too many parents have low standards - or none at all.
100% agree with this.

Aw OP, I've been there - my DD used to get me to the point of screaming every punishment that popped into my head in a desperate attempt to make her behave - it never did

I wouldn't bother grounding him, at that age he can just walk out then what are you going to do? Keeping him in for an hour this morning wasn't very successful so I'd rule out that, it won't work.

I'd stick to removing pocket money, or removing the PlayStation - these are things you can have genuine control over. If you keep him in for 2 weeks I can almost guarantee his face will be all over Facebook by the 2nd day when he decides he doesn't give a shit about your rules and does a runner.

I know they can be a nightmare but try to keep your calm - it'll soon be over. My daughter is all grown up now and I like her again

I have one about the same age
I do expect some weekly chores contribution but I don't stipulate the timing. I think I would have reminded him about my request and asked him what job he is going to do and when. That is what I do with mine. If they don't do it then I give them one calm warning that allowance money will be docked if not done
If they still don't do it then I tell them it is about to be docked x amount of not done by x time.
At that point 9/10 times they do it in a very foul mood. I do not comment on the bad grace.
If they say they don't care and don't do it then fine. Money is docked and no more said. Clean slate next week.
I try to avoid shouting and escalating things
so no one winds up swearing (it would as likely be me doing the swearing)

If my DD told me to piss off (she has done at least close to that) I would be cross but I would let her flounce off, I would wait until things had calmed down and have a conversation later about not expecting to be talked to like that. I would not ask for an apology but I might hope one would be forthcoming. If I did or said anything I regretted I'd apologise first as a good example.

I don't think grounding or taking away a phone would work very well. Grounding is hard to enforce physically. Phones are so integral for them now that it's a very big punishment. I think stuff like that breeds a lot of resentment and just prolongs a quarrel.

This has been playing on my mind. The punishments do seem excessive. I get the impression that you lost your temper and lashed out by escalating the punishments in an attempt to make an impression on him. In the same way that he lost his temper and lashed out at you by swearing.

I don't think you did the right thing but it's not irretrievable. Talk to him when you have both calmed down. Tell him that what happened that morning wasn't acceptable and neither of you should have lost your temper like that. That you won't tolerate swearing in the house (unless of course you or his dad swear in which case you can't complain if he copies you) and how should the two of you ensure that things don't get that bad again.

Most kids swear at their parents at least once. My eldest was pretty much an angel and even she did it - just once! It's not the end of the world. Just work out how to handle it without it becoming a battle of wills.

This is MN OP where all SC have to be treated like gods and SM's are expected to not complain at the abuse said God's subject them to. If you stand up for yourself or dare to parent then you are thought of as vindictive, cruel or just downright nasty.

His dad is in work today, he's the one doing the work on the house. He will deal with him when he gets home.

@Confusedandshaken no one lost their temper, there was no shouting. He just came down coat on ready to go. I said where are you going, remember we're all tidying this morning, he said nah, I'm not doing that and legged it.

GCSE equivalents are taken at 16 in Ireland.

I think it is Junior Certificate at 14/15 years old (roughly GCSE equivalent) and Leaving Certificate at 17/18 (A Level equivalent).

I have a 15 year old son. If he disrespected me, left the house despite being told no and then told me to piss off there would be hell.

You aren't being unreasonable, he can make plans all he likes but you made your expectations clear. I wouldn't haven't cancelled his birthday present but the remaining sanctions seem fine.

My son would mumble under his breath and be moody. But he wouldn't leave the house under those circumstances as he knows that it would result in a severe consequences.

@trappedsincesundaymorn it seems I'm a bitch of the highest order had I posted that he's in prison, oh fuck where did I go wrong I'd be told that I should have disciplined him and taught him respect. But this is mumsnet where you can't win!

With my 16 and 14 year old, I usually try to have a sit down with them and their father when I'm that annoyed or issues build up like they have here - for me, the harsh talk would be behind the other issues. We generally end up giving them doing more work rather than taking things away (but our consoles are all family rather than individual property).

Haven't been told to piss off, but have had words/attitudes to the same effect. Part of me feels like going 'okay then' and just not doing the equivalent for them, sometimes I take that too far, but we usually end up with refiguring out a balance.

@lughnasadh

Jesus, overreaction much?

To you maybe & exactly why do many of them think they can do as they please & talk as they please

Up your game.

It doesnt really look like you're taking the comments on board.

You can aim for being right and "winning" the "battle" seeing it as a power struggle.

Or you can work on the relationship. It depends which goal you have. Relationships take work but are worth it. Just trying to stamp your way may end up eith "winning " in the short run but at cost to the relationship.

I have a son the same age and having similar issues although he seems to have just enough of a sense of self preservation to not swear at me.

My eldest DS was the same at the same age. I think they go through a Billy Big Bollocks stage where they try to Alpha. Thankfully most of them seem to grow out of it, but I found that keeping boundaries was the most important thing. As long as he knows that you will NOT back down on this then he will realise that you are the Alpha and not him.

I think some of these replies are crazy.

Were the chores time critical? My kids would have asked to be assigned their chores on Friday night or would have got up an hour earlier so they could go out at 9am. Yanbu asking for an hour of their time for cleaning.