DD’s friends changing gender at school

[AFS1]

My daughter is in yr 7. In the last month or so an increasing number of her female friends have changed their names to boys’ names and decided they want to be addressed as “he/him”. We’re up to at least 4, including her best friend who she’s known since they were in reception (and has never once demonstrated even the slightest hint of gender dysphoria). My daughter is desperately trying to respect the various requests but is becoming increasingly confused and upset by it all. She feels like she doesn’t really know her friends anymore and that she doesn’t fit in with them.

It very much feels like a phase to me, but it’s really beginning to have an impact on my daughter. It also feels like it’s getting out of hand. WIBU to speak to the school about it all? I don’t really know what they could do, but it just seems that maybe some work needs to be done around this issue.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? I’d be really grateful for any advice about what to do and say. Thanks.

'We’re not talking about transgender issues in sports and in adulthood'

I didn't talk about adulthood. I gave an example of how girls are being disadvantaged by the idea that gender ID as declared should be accepted in general in schools. Because you said it made no odds and was essentially trivial.

The big question, therefore, is why are so many girls of this generation wanting to identify as boys?

For many reasons - it is sometimes easier being a boy for various reasons you don’t have the pressure of needing to have a fantastic body, great hair, attracting boys etc. It can also be due to the stigma of wanting to play male sports but thinking they can’t because they’re female. There is more acceptance nowadays to be who you truly are. They’re not attracted to boys yet so they think they must be a lesbian or a boy and choose the boy as the easier option. They’re going through loads of changes and hormonal feeling and put it down to bring in the wrong body.

There are many reasons but the biggest is that it’s more accepted as when I was in school you’d get beaten up for it or bullied by the teachers whereas you might still get beaten up now but there’s a lot that just wouldn’t care.

Fair enough @astery, I should have said that there aren’t hoards of middle aged women presenting as men. The proportionate equivalent to all of the girls who are identifying as male now.

There is more acceptance nowadays to be who you truly are.

I disagree. Sexual stereotypes are increasingly regressive. With the 100 plus genders there’s more pressure to “identify as” a particular group.

@toocold54

The big question, therefore, is why are so many girls of this generation wanting to identify as boys?

For many reasons - it is sometimes easier being a boy for various reasons you don’t have the pressure of needing to have a fantastic body, great hair, attracting boys etc. It can also be due to the stigma of wanting to play male sports but thinking they can’t because they’re female. There is more acceptance nowadays to be who you truly are. They’re not attracted to boys yet so they think they must be a lesbian or a boy and choose the boy as the easier option. They’re going through loads of changes and hormonal feeling and put it down to bring in the wrong body.

There are many reasons but the biggest is that it’s more accepted as when I was in school you’d get beaten up for it or bullied by the teachers whereas you might still get beaten up now but there’s a lot that just wouldn’t care.

I don't understand why you wouldn't address all of these issues with them rather than trying to pretend that it is possible to change sex?

You should be careful throwing around accusations of transphobia.

@stonecat there are some people that have genuine concerns about children being forced into acting like the opposite sex but this is ridiculously rare and in the UK you can’t go on hormone blockers until you’re over 18 and most females are on the pill way before this anyway.

But as soon as someone mentions transgender issues there are posters who jump on the thread to say it’s unacceptable and try and scare people into thinking they’re all going to have sex changes when we know a year later most of them will be going through a different phase.

'For many reasons - it is sometimes easier being a boy for various reasons you don’t have the pressure of needing to have a fantastic body, great hair, attracting boys etc. It can also be due to the stigma of wanting to play male sports but thinking they can’t because they’re female. There is more acceptance nowadays to be who you truly are. They’re not attracted to boys yet so they think they must be a lesbian or a boy and choose the boy as the easier option. They’re going through loads of changes and hormonal feeling and put it down to bring in the wrong body.'

Yes well I think many women on here would agree with those drivers being present.

Why is your solution to do the whole ok you're a boy thing, rather than work to dismantle harmful stereotypes?

Because saying ok you're a boy entrenches those sexist oppressive ideas even further.

I agree that there is less acceptance within young people at the moment. There is less encouragement to think for yourself, and just to have fun with experimenting with your identity and sexuality. It’s all very serious which is why your daughter is demeaned for forgetting a pronoun. It’s okay to be quite confused and it’s okay to take time to get used to someone who knew for years now wanting to be called someone else.

There is so much on external identity now and less on friendships and fun. Having to look who you aspire to be on Instagram. How many followers. How with it you are. How woke. You dare trip up and say the wrong thing. It’s way too serious!

It really should feel free enough to expand and experiment or not to experiment at all. Easy going teenagehood where you can go at your own pace. That only comes when you are in a secure, tolerant friendship group. That’s the key.

Are you a young trans person toocold?

I mean you don't have to say obv but you seem to be very different than the usual posters we have to argue!

The problem with it's just changing a name is it isn't. Because accepting that self id is valid opens up a massive amount of other serious issues.

I call my daughter's friends whatever they want to be called. It's trivial. I just have to try and remember who is what now and that can be difficult. Never been good at names tbh.

Why is your solution to do the whole ok you're a boy thing, rather than work to dismantle harmful stereotypes?

No I agree we need to get to the root of the problem definitely.

But teenagers brains work differently if they think they are genuinely meant to be a boy/girl and you completely dismiss that how is that going to make them feel?

Whereas if you say yes I can call you kylie instead of Kyle and then build up their self esteem then they will naturally grow out of the phase and if they don’t it’s because they genuinely feel that way and you’ve not called them a liar or dismissed their feelings. Calling someone a her instead of he is going to do less harm than acting like they don’t know what they’re talking about.

Are you a young trans person toocold?

No I’m not. I was born female and identify as female.

I wish I could be male. Obviously not a sensitive beta. I'd be one that played golf instead of minding the kids and I'd loom, entitled, in doorways. I'd have a wife who rushed around doing everything and every now and then I'd bring her a present to show my appreciation. Other times I'd wonder why my favourite shirts weren't ironed, but hey as a modern guy I could step in and help her out. Then I'd push off for a skiing weekend with my bros.

My daughter has a friend who used to go by a female name, now male. Mum changes pronouns depending on who she is talking to. As do school. Dad refuses to acknowledge it at all.

One one hand I do feel it is more common than you would expect at the moment. My DD of the same age has firmly told us she is pansexual. She currently plays Animal Crossing and Sims. There appear to be no boyfriends girlfriends or crushes.

On the other hand I wonder if this was all there when I was growing up, and a bit like same-sex relationships, it was just something outside discussion, contemplation or acceptance.

I do sometimes feel there’s an added dimension of confusion added to our teens. But then again, how many suffered in silence before it wasn’t a scandal to fancy those of your own sex?

It's only as of a few months ago that a ruling was made asserting that under 16s are unlikely to be capable of giving consent to taking puberty blockers.

Hormonal contraceptives block or increase hormones to reduce risk of pregnancy, cramps etc and I know many people under 16 who take these with their parents permission.
I don’t know anyone under the age of 18 who uses hormone blockers for transgender issues. But I know some that uses other illegal things which can make them seriously ill.
I would campaign for no hormone blockers under the age of 18 but this has nothing to do with calling someone a different name.

@doona If I was your typical father, I would have had four children. Company for each other!

Telling a child that they can change sex is very much a harmful thing to do.

Sex and gender are different things and I’d never say you can change sex as that XX or XY and you can’t change that.

@toocold54

Why is your solution to do the whole ok you're a boy thing, rather than work to dismantle harmful stereotypes?

No I agree we need to get to the root of the problem definitely.

But teenagers brains work differently if they think they are genuinely meant to be a boy/girl and you completely dismiss that how is that going to make them feel?

Whereas if you say yes I can call you kylie instead of Kyle and then build up their self esteem then they will naturally grow out of the phase and if they don’t it’s because they genuinely feel that way and you’ve not called them a liar or dismissed their feelings. Calling someone a her instead of he is going to do less harm than acting like they don’t know what they’re talking about.

I've said that I refer to my DDs friends by the name they prefer. So that can be put to one side.

You agree that sexist constraints are at the bottom of this. Reinforcing that by saying you can opt out of your role like this, does nothing to address the problem.

I have been aware of and hated the way I was treated etc since I was tiny. It made no sense.

I was a feminist before I knew the word. I want men and women to be able to be free to look how they want, have any interests or jobs they want. I want little girls not to have oh she's so pretty and boys oh he's strong etc. As babies FFS.

Yes, I know about 3 or 4 of my daughter’s YR8 friends who changed their names, two of them now want to be addressed as ‘they’.

Apparently there’s also 28 types of sexuality from pansexual, asexual etc....

For most teens it’s probably just a rebel phase and it’s certainly a way for them to become their own person. I think each generation finds a new way to ‘shock’ their parents. So I think it is healthy for them in a way to become independent.

Just support your daughter through the changes in her friendship circle and if she finds it makes her uneasy. And also let her hang out with other kids if she wants to?

Is it a girls’ school? This is what we have observed from our small sample here. Mixed school kids seem to be more ‘traditionally’ gendered. Sorry if I have used the wrong language with all these terms.

And yes, it starts with affirming new names and "pronouns". The more you affirm, the more likely these children carry on down this path.

No I have more kids who want their name changed to the same sex they already are eg Sarah to Sophie and it doesn’t send them down some dark path. It’s just teens being teens and no teen goes to the doctors and says I want to be male/female and the doctor puts them straight on hormone blockers it takes years.