DD’s friends changing gender at school

[AFS1]

My daughter is in yr 7. In the last month or so an increasing number of her female friends have changed their names to boys’ names and decided they want to be addressed as “he/him”. We’re up to at least 4, including her best friend who she’s known since they were in reception (and has never once demonstrated even the slightest hint of gender dysphoria). My daughter is desperately trying to respect the various requests but is becoming increasingly confused and upset by it all. She feels like she doesn’t really know her friends anymore and that she doesn’t fit in with them.

It very much feels like a phase to me, but it’s really beginning to have an impact on my daughter. It also feels like it’s getting out of hand. WIBU to speak to the school about it all? I don’t really know what they could do, but it just seems that maybe some work needs to be done around this issue.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? I’d be really grateful for any advice about what to do and say. Thanks.

Just like to add that a lot of people here seem to be conflating identity with sexual orientation.
Inevitable since Stonewall et al added the T to the LGB but they actually have no relationship to each other. Obviously some people who are trans will be also be gay but that applies to any group.

@CutieBear

Someone needs to tell girls that it’s okay to like non-traditionally girly things. It doesn’t mean they’re a boy. Same goes for boys. They’re confirming to gender stereotypes by saying “I don’t like girly things so I must be a boy and dress like a boy.”

Exactly this.

I've always said the same about the term 'tomboy'. Girls need to know that climbing trees, playing rough sports, getting muddy, playing with cars ect are just things they find fun and are not anything a girl cannot or shouldn't enjoy. Having fun with these things does not make them any less of a girl.

@GirlCrush

well this isn't going anywhere and will only increase as time goes on

enlighten your kids, but maybe some mums netters need to educate themselves first

So we will have a whole world full of adults who were born male, but are now "female", or born female, bit are now "male", and we will be growing babies in science labs to keep the cycle going?

Singular 'they' came about as a pronoun in the 14th century. I'm not sure if people had a vote or something but if you want to shout at them for "gaslighting" you and policing your language you should probably find yourself a time machine.

If you want to get bent out of shape about language, why not get angry at the generic he pronoun? After all, that is presuming everyone of indeterminate gender is male and erases women altogether.

Honestly, the fact that you think this is equivalent in any way to gaslighting is laughable - "including the sex of people she sees"? So are you advocating traditional gender stereotypes like women have long hair and wear make-up? Otherwise how does someone look like a woman so this precious teenager can accurately describe them when she sees them.

No one is saying you need to use a person's preferred pronouns when they aren't around to hear you but honestly, if you choose not to then that speaks volumes about the sort of person you are.

My 7 year old ds was told by a friend the other day, that he used to have a sister, bit she went to the doctor, got some medicine and now she's a boy! Bam, so simple and easy.

Fgs. www.thesun.co.uk/tv/15013711

These parents thought their 2 year old was playing like a boy. So they decided their daughter must want to be a boy.

@PossiblyGayJane

Singular 'they' came about as a pronoun in the 14th century. I'm not sure if people had a vote or something but if you want to shout at them for "gaslighting" you and policing your language you should probably find yourself a time machine.

If you want to get bent out of shape about language, why not get angry at the generic he pronoun? After all, that is presuming everyone of indeterminate gender is male and erases women altogether.

Honestly, the fact that you think this is equivalent in any way to gaslighting is laughable - "including the sex of people she sees"? So are you advocating traditional gender stereotypes like women have long hair and wear make-up? Otherwise how does someone look like a woman so this precious teenager can accurately describe them when she sees them.

No one is saying you need to use a person's preferred pronouns when they aren't around to hear you but honestly, if you choose not to then that speaks volumes about the sort of person you are.

Singular they, in English, is specifically when you don’t know a person’s sex. “The plumber is coming, but I’m not sure what time they will be here.” Once you know someone is male or female you don’t need it anymore.

And the singular they is useful to rail against the generic male he pronoun. Note in that example I made the plumber “they”. This is to help demonstrate to girls that there are no fixed gender roles. But on the flip side gender ideology reinforces stereotypes; you can only be a “they” if you dislike stereotypes apparently. Welcome to the rest of us .

This child knows the sex of her friends because she knows they are female. She’s always known. That hasn’t changed but she is supposed to be forced to believe they have and change their language accordingly?! All humans can accurately tell the sex of people, based on multiple biological factors. This “precious teenager” as you so rudely call her knows what a woman is because we ALL do. Its not based on stereotypes. It’s only a certain faction of society who would like us to think that way. It’s not ME who wants to enforce stereotypes to identify people; it’s others who want to enforce stereotypes or the rejection of such by non-binary people to describe a person’s “gender”. This girl is being forced to change her perception and description of reality because of stereotypes.

And as for this:

No one is saying you need to use a person's preferred pronouns when they aren't around to hear you but honestly, if you choose not to then that speaks volumes about the sort of person you are.

This is supposed to be some form of damning statement of my character. But really it’s laughable. When I am speaking at home, I refer to Sam Smith, Demi Lovato, Eddie Izzard, and whoever else exactly how I want to. I couldn’t give a toss what sort of person this makes me 😆. It’s no different to Donald Trump demanding we all refer to him as the World’s Greatest President. I get to choose how I speak about people. No one will compel me to do so. I will not be complicit in such an ideology.

I guess it begs the question: if no one is around to hear your gender affirmation, do you really accumulate woke points? You know they - all of them - can’t hear you, right? Who are you trying to please?

iminaglasscaseofemotion
There already are quite a lot of detransitioners.

The Keira Bell case is obviously one example but there are more around.

@AFS1

My daughter is in yr 7. In the last month or so an increasing number of her female friends have changed their names to boys’ names and decided they want to be addressed as “he/him”. We’re up to at least 4, including her best friend who she’s known since they were in reception (and has never once demonstrated even the slightest hint of gender dysphoria). My daughter is desperately trying to respect the various requests but is becoming increasingly confused and upset by it all. She feels like she doesn’t really know her friends anymore and that she doesn’t fit in with them.

It very much feels like a phase to me, but it’s really beginning to have an impact on my daughter. It also feels like it’s getting out of hand. WIBU to speak to the school about it all? I don’t really know what they could do, but it just seems that maybe some work needs to be done around this issue.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? I’d be really grateful for any advice about what to do and say. Thanks.

I can understand the dilemma you are going through. Come what may, your priority is, should and will be your DD. If I were in your position, I would go to any length to ensure that my daughter is protected from these disillusioned people fighting nature. The Health and wellbeing of my children will always be my topmost priority. Mind you, I am not against any religion, caste, gender;. Everyone has the right to practise what they wish without imposing it on others. I am definitely against the forced imposition of rules. Humanity is the only thing that I love and respect.

@nolongersurprised

but many (majority female) are offended by transgender people especially those who are m-f rather than f-m

toocool the world can be brutal to trans males as well, who, if they are attracted to men will not be accepted into the gay community.

The post below was from a link for a gay forum posted on the other recent thread. The posters were discussing their horror at transmen entering their male spaces.

It's a fucking MALE sauna for dick + dick activity.
YOU AREN'T A GAY MAN UNLESS YOU HAVE A DICK AND HAVE DEALT WITH DICK-RELATED (REAL / VIOLENT) HOMOBPHOBIC STRAIGHT ASSHOLES.
FUCK OFF PRECIOUS STRAIGHT BUTCH GIRL.
—If you do not have a COCK you cannot ride this rollercoaster.

Lying to children sets them up for a disillusioned adulthood.

Interesting that lesbians should just accept the ‘female cock’ and gay men just won’t stand for it. More misogyny.

FakeColinCaterpillar
Good point. I do think the backlash is partly because GC women are being joined by gay men now in fighting for female spaces etc.
Partly because gay men are being told they are transphobic if they don’t want to sleep with transmen and Stonewall have redefined homosexuality as same gender attraction.
One of the finalists in Mr Gay Uk this year is a woman....

@PossiblyGayJane

Singular 'they' came about as a pronoun in the 14th century. I'm not sure if people had a vote or something but if you want to shout at them for "gaslighting" you and policing your language you should probably find yourself a time machine.

If you want to get bent out of shape about language, why not get angry at the generic he pronoun? After all, that is presuming everyone of indeterminate gender is male and erases women altogether.

Honestly, the fact that you think this is equivalent in any way to gaslighting is laughable - "including the sex of people she sees"? So are you advocating traditional gender stereotypes like women have long hair and wear make-up? Otherwise how does someone look like a woman so this precious teenager can accurately describe them when she sees them.

No one is saying you need to use a person's preferred pronouns when they aren't around to hear you but honestly, if you choose not to then that speaks volumes about the sort of person you are.

You seem to think accurately sexing people is difficult. It's really not. It's hardwired into humans especially females.

And while the singular “they” has been around for while to describe a person when their sex is not known, or is being deliberately kept unknown, it is only recently, and without permission, that we are expected to use “she/her” for someone who “identifies” as a woman, and “he/him” for someone who “identifies” as a man, as opposed to human female and human male respectively. Why? Who says we have to? What are the rules? Why do IPSO specify that a male offender should be referred to as “she” in reporting if they identify as such? Why does Mumsnet allow he for nasty pieces of work like Karen White, but we can’t keep a thread about Izzard? Who decides? Why do people who accurately sex males get banned from Twitter, even when it is subsequently revealed that such a person is a predator? Why are we being railroaded into altering the description of our reality? It’s gaslighting, pure and simple.

Children should be protected from this, not “called out”, punished, excommunicated.

I feel that so many parents are in the situation and any time they voice a concern they are accused of being "phobic" , many teachers are also concerned, in their case speaking out can threaten their livelihood. People in real life have been to a certain extent silenced which means that children and young people then start to echo this phobic accusation. Being a parent has always been difficult but this current trend makes it doubly hard

@twelly

I feel that so many parents are in the situation and any time they voice a concern they are accused of being "phobic" , many teachers are also concerned, in their case speaking out can threaten their livelihood. People in real life have been to a certain extent silenced which means that children and young people then start to echo this phobic accusation. Being a parent has always been difficult but this current trend makes it doubly hard

Then you need to stand up and say what you think. It’s not phobic to question it. It’s actually teaching our own children to keep an open mind.

Children are much more likely to struggle with the cognitive dissonance of suddenly calling their female friends “he” as well.

The “be kind” approach will confuse a 12 year old as it’s essentially telling them “even though your friend is a girl we are saying they are a boy because it’s somehow kind to go along with what a child pretends but only specifically when they say they can change sex even though they can’t”.

So, are they now chasing each other round the corridors, flicking bits of paper at each other, wrestling, and playing football in the mud at lunch? Or are they still standing around on the yard talking about how great it is to be a boy?

I think gender stereotypes are bollocks, but it would be interesting to see how 'boy' they want to be.

Yes the idea that the only way we can properly sex people is by their outward appearance is completely ridiculous

So these girls are getting to/at the age where creepy men start gawping, honking horns, grabbing and groping. Sadly these men can still spot the female.

@lighteincastlewindow

Sorry I should have clarified in saying that started when they presented as trans. Like-

*"Mum I think I'm a girl. I wish I had long hair and my little pony and I hate my penis"

Well anybody can like my little pony, it's pretty awesome. And you can grow your hair. Boys can like make up and long hair and pretty clothes. Just like girls can do diy and be tree surgeons etc. Come on, who does the DIY in this house? It's definitely not your dad cos he's terrible at it. And I wear trousers and have lots of tattoos. Some people would say that's pretty masculine but I'm still a woman. We can't charge sex but we can like whatever we want.*

My children have all been very typical into this happened. BUT I've never told them that there is something they can't do. My daughters have had Lego technic and helps with diy and my boys have done horse riding and learned to crochet. I would never tell my kids that their sex means they are restricted to stereotypical roles as that in its self is harmful. They should be allowed to do whatever they want.

Encourage her to stepback and find other friends she clearly has little in common with these dont be nasty about it though

My DD2 at the age of 2 decided she didn’t want a doll like her big sister but wanted a hulk and cars instead. Then it was dinosaurs. When other 3 year olds were dressing up as princesses she was a robot. At age 5 she refused to wear a skirt to school and hasn’t done since, all through primary school she wore boys clothes right down to underwear, she got her hair cut short although it had since grown. Now age 15 1/2 she wears men’s unisex clothes, she wears sports bras which flatten her breasts. She of course knows all about non binary and if I had been a parent who had pushed could have had her on puberty blockers as at one time she did say she wanted to be a boy. I think at the moment she’s female just not a stereotypical one, she doesn’t want to change her name or pronouns, I think she just wants to left alone to dress how she pleases really.

i'd be tempted to switch schools and unplug the internet

Sounds like my sister (not quite so). She had action men and toy helicopters. She is still a she, never wanted to be a boy/male but just preferred ‘boys’ things. Our parents just let her get on with it.

God alone knows what some trendy right on school would have made of her these days.