to be surprised at how many Mumsnetters are fine with pornography? II

[Judy1234]

Continuing the previous thread - people's sexuality varies hugely and what some people think is disgusting is good fun for others. It's impossible to generalise and say XYZ practice is wrong or repugnant and I agree with the posts at the end of the other thread that porn often just reflects what people do. Obviously you pick where your own interests lie and are glad human beings are diverse.

I think the new violent porn legislation is not yet in force and still time for pro porn people to lobby against it. So go forth and email your MP to tell him a lot of women actually quite like porn and even if they don't they will defend the right of those that do to have it.

I stand corrected,
the legislation is still being drafted.

This Guardian article provides more background.

In fact, it's almost a summary of this thread.

Heh, thanks ChampagneandFlowers. I read your thread and your dh sounds like a complete knob for doing that.

The other thing I couldn't believe on your thread was the women popping up to say how random blokes had shown or offered to show them porn. It just shows how bad its got. I wonder if the chipshop lady had "consented" for everybody and their taxi-driver to watch her most intimate moments - probably not.

Any woman can speak up against porn - we just have to do it. This is a really good website which has loads of information about what porn is really like and what it does to people - www.oneangrygirl.net/antiporn.html

Oops link

To quote a bit from it (some porn users talk about their habits) -

"Sex just seemed so ordinary; it was no longer thrilling or magical the way it had been before I-porn. I actually had to make a conscious decision to quit. I was worried that I was becoming compulsive and even dependent on it. The fact that porn was altering my sex life scared me. When I don?t have those images in front of me, I just can?t get that aroused. Sex is no longer as physiologically exciting.
Rajiv, porn user

I?ve definitely noticed that naked images that used to arouse me don?t anymore, so I had to move on. I found that I was getting numb to basic images. I needed to keep progressing to more explicit stuff.
Dave, porn user

It?s kind of silly, but my standards changed. Women who were otherwise good-looking but weren?t as overtly sexy as the women in porn don?t appeal to me as much anymore. I found that I look more for women who have the attributes I see in porn. I want bigger breasts, blonder hair, curvier bodies in general. Just better-looking overall.
Harrison, porn user

It?s become more severe as time has gone on...for some reason, with porn, in order for me to get excited, I need to notch it up one level. It?s got to be more extreme. Seeing women demeaned is somehow a turn on.
Tyler, porn user"

Can I just add that Abbi Titmus is quoted as saying that she views everyone who has watched 'that' video as violating her. She has never consented to it being published and has never made any money from it. As far as she was concerned it was a private exploration.

Oh yeah, and Paris Hilton went into a video store in Canada recently that were advertsing the video her scumbag boyfriend made of her and tried to get them to stop advertising it. She's obviously not happy about what happened to her either.

Doesn't stop people watching and enjoying those videos though does it, MT?

i dont think anyone here would argue that non consensual filming and subsequent non consensual releasing of sex films was ok.

NO, because often - if you read some of the comments even on here about them - they deserve our contempt.

So much for porn improving your rep. These women have other things going for them of course. Hilton has a fortune to fall back on so won't really feel any hardship in fiscal terms, but she will have a hard time being taken serously or escaping her past.

Titmus was canny and used the exposure to her advantage. She didn't go into porn though, just erotica. Now she is acting on stage.

Doesn't stop them being mainstream though Custy. No one seems to care, that being my point, or one of them.

I hardly think that paris hilton is a prime example of a poor young lass taken exploited by the porn industry!

What you mean because she was rich it was OK for her boyfriend to do that to her and for everyone else to join in the fun? Does having a few millions in the bank make public sexual exposure easier to handle?

She's not a prime example, she's just another example. As was Abi Titmus, as was the woman from the chip-shop probably, as was Imogen from Big Brother, as was Pamela Anderson who had to share the sex she had on her wedding night with the whole world or at least the voyeurs amongst us ( I wonder how many Mumsnetters would like to volunteer for that particular experience).

Maybe we should have a whole thread on empathy. Because it's sorely lacking on a great deal of this one.

Yes Elizabeth I really do believe this is how bad it had got. From your last thread which was really interesing (the first post)

I asked DH about the porn he wathces and does he think it is degrading to women and he replied "no, they are not forced into it" I totally disagree on this as I am sure each porn stars circumstances are different.

I am not a porn fan and my DH is shall I leave him? . I REALLY want to .

Just confiscate all his electronic equipment. He's probably an addict (and a bit of a knob by the sounds of it), then watch the withdrawl symptoms.

This thing about force - you could probably persuade quite a few people to have their finger chopped off if you offered them a million dollars. If it was filmed and then people watched it for enjoyment, would it make it OK that the person hadn't been "forced"?

INdeed, 'gonzo' porn started out as a contrast to the glossy stuff and initially was more about very basic production values and more natural-looking models. Some of it still is.
And there's no one single reason that's the same for everyone who watches a porn film, any more than there is for everyone who watches a horror film or a romantic comedy.

Nothing to do with her money, im quite shocked you think it is. But she has a track record for questionable behaviour, yes that doesn;t excuse the boyfriend but i think she has put herself in magazines etc etc. So..........also, shes Paris Hilton, i dont think she is so niave to think that someone videoing her doing whatever isnt going to cash in on it . There is real exploitation in the porn industry, i just do not think that woman as a crusader for womens rights. In fact her behaviour in the past has infuriated me and the fact that she seems to be such a role model for young girls, so excuse me if my sympathy is limited. Exploitation is when poor women, for whatever reason are bullied into porn, when women are tricked into porn or coerced by shit bastard boyfriends and this must be stopped, but i just do not understand why you cannot accpet that there are women who are willing participants who do well financially etc. Not all women and that is why i have made a concious decision not to watch porn any more, i have never downloaded from the internet as that is where i would consider exploitation to be rife. When i say not watch porn anymore, i think i might watch it once a year. What we should be campaining for is protection of women who chose this industry, because there is money to be made out of sad guys who want to toss away the evening, and couples who want to watch porn together etc - but the money should be going to the women principally. I should imagine that there are women who exploit other women in the porn industry too.

champagne, please don't be thinking about leaving your DH because of porn. If it has a detrimental affect on your relationship that is different, but a bit of wank fodder is hardly cause for divorce, although i have read your other thread and i would have been livid as i said. I do think you need to talk this through with your DP. Its difficult for me to comment on this actually as my DP is a take it or leave it type when it comes to porn, he doesnt look at it alone, im not saying he never has but it is something, because i am ok with it, we look at together, cant be doing with wank mags but we have a few videos, although for the reason that i cannot be sure the women are getting a fair deal, we wont be watching them, these were films we borrowed from friends who borrowed from friends if you see what i mean so i cannot be sure. I do think if it was more legitimised and the Mary Whitehouse brigade didnt force sex underground then there would be more protection for all involved.

Elizabeth - just an aside "This thing about force - you could probably persuade quite a few people to have their finger chopped off if you offered them a million dollars. If it was filmed and then people watched it for enjoyment, would it make it OK that the person hadn't been "forced"? "

There was actually a tales of the unexpected that was about just that, i can't quite remember what the twist was though. As for me, yep, you could have my finger for a million, but only the pinky!!

Serious question as your posts have focused on exploitation and that is very valid and from that standpoint i agree with you. But i was just wondering how you feel about porn that is not exploitative that the women starring in it are doing so because they are good at what they do and are business women with no self esteem problems etc etc, in a situation where exploitation is outlawed, what is your opinion then. Or do you object to the whole image of women in porn too, if that is the right word. Just wondered

Ah the myth of the "good victim". If Paris Hilton doesn't act in a totally ladylike way then it's OK to treat her like that, is it? I mean oh my god she put herself in magazines, that totally gives us all the right to see her having sex in private.

She allowed her boyfriend to film her. Maybe she was just like every other woman who has ever been persuaded by her boyfriend/husband to take sexual images of her that he would never let anybody else see it, wide-eyed, wide-eyed, "I love you far too much for that, this will just be between you and me, darling". Then he rushes off to youtube or the video distributors or wherever. It's always the victim's fault - she can't have been naive or duped or whatever.

LEM- I am thinking seriously of leaving him because of his constant look at porn, and if I am going to be honest I posted under the name of AngryLittleMummy about my lttle one seeing porn that DH left in the video. I was so pissed off about it.

I am so pi%%ed off right now. I don't now what do to tbh.

I've already said that an industry where women's bodies are commodities bought and sold by men is always going to be exploitative LEM.

It's a FANTASY (a real one not the pretend porn kind) that women in porn can become snappy business-women or liberated or empowered or whatever good things that porn-defenders stole from feminism and twisted in order to dress up women sexually serving men as somehow OK (they did it with lap-dancing, stripping, lipstick and high heels too). Being used like that is soul and body destroying. I don't know why you and others are so keen on that fantasy but you seem pretty set on clinging to it.

You keep asking questions which have already been answered LEM. Could you please read the thread because it will save a lot of energy.

elizabetth. what about a woman that cajoles her partner into filming her.

and did you look at my comstock films link? is that porn? documentaries about real life couples sexuality including explicit and arguably titillating footage of them having sex?

do you think all exhibitionists are to be reproached? how about lesbian porn? who is exploiting who there?

you have had horrible experiences with seeing things too young. do you see that that experience has coloured your perception of this whole area, just as my personal experiences have coloured mine?

you could have my finger for a million - thats the personal choice. but i wouldnt fuckon camera for a million - again my personal choice. but i wouldnt take away the right of other people who wanted to earn money that way to do so.

actually lesbian porn is a really really good example. do you arguments follow in that genre?

and i'm not getting at you, i'm trying very hard to get to the nub of your argument.

have you spoken to DH champagne? What do you mean by constant

Elizabeth, i agree totally with your sentiments but Paris Hilton is hardly wide eyed and niave, sorry but she is not a good example and in my opinion not a victim. I could be wrong but i think just a publicity stunt. I do however think that a prostitute can be raped and is entitled to the same protection as any other woman.

ChampagneandFlowers, you might find this website useful - it's about porn addiction.

no-porn.com/

I'm not suprised you are angry.