to be surprised at how many Mumsnetters are fine with pornography? II

[Judy1234]

Continuing the previous thread - people's sexuality varies hugely and what some people think is disgusting is good fun for others. It's impossible to generalise and say XYZ practice is wrong or repugnant and I agree with the posts at the end of the other thread that porn often just reflects what people do. Obviously you pick where your own interests lie and are glad human beings are diverse.

snort mt

Article here about Dr Neil Malamuth at UCLA and his research into porn and sexual violence.

I just know her through Grauniad articles. She is refreshingly strident.

oh dear, champagne.. sounds grim.
can't see link?

MT, I didn't mean to rile you earlier
on the question of banning.
I was referring to the anti-violent-porn legislation
that came into force last year in the UK.

Seeing as there are already laws against the possession
of extremely violent pornography (see here and here)
there is every possibility that these laws can be
widened to include extreme forms of gonzo.

obm, btw, gonzo simply means 'non-scripted' porn.
More confusion!

For my part, though I do identify myself as a feminist, that being one interested in the sociopolitical situation of my own gender, but I am a Darwinian feminist, and tend to rely on studies from biology and psychology (ie scientific) rather than ones grounded in traditional feminist ideology.

wot, my link? It's working for me. Address is www.medialit.org/reading_room/article443.html

No worries, I wasn't riled; just temporarily humourless. My Hitchens moment got me through it

PC's link

So where is Elizabeth? I liked her posts.

""I also don't think men who watch porn, be it gonzo or any other type, see women as wanting to be hurt/humiliated."

That's not what I said Norma I said what does it say about men and boys who watch this sort of stuff (and a good number of them do whatever the deniers try to claim) that they want to see women hurt and humiliated. Not one porn defender has picked up on that. They don't want to think about it because the answer is really frightening. What would people think of whites wanting to watch black people treated in this way? Or gentiles getting off to jews being treated in this way (oh and Nazi porn is a sub-genre BTW)."

My comment wasn't aimed at you Elizabetth. I was replying to another poster.

However in response to your question about "what does it say about men who want to watch the sort of stuff where women are hurt/humiliated, the answer has a few parts to it tbh.

1. I think there are some men who see it as pure fantasy, it's something they can't do in real life and wouldn't even consider doing in real life. They think that because it is 'on film' it is, in a sense, not real. Those people are hypocrites. Those people cannot and will not understand that the people starring in it are real.
2. I think there are also some men who actually enjoy being more powerful than women, they get off on making women do what they want. I think these men have 'issues' which could for a number of reasons - e.g. sexual abuse, bad parenting, social interaction problems, and the like.

Neither 1 or 2 are acceptable in my opinion.

There is also another option, which I think is by far the majority of men:
3) I think there are a number of men (the majority of the men who watch this type of porn) who are not able and probably wouldn't want to do it in real life. It is a fantasy for them and they understand that the people in the porn film are purely acting (with full consent).

pol found malumuth rather vague..

dj i think you're right, it certainly meant 'real, without fake tits etc' ten years ago.

But was under the impre. that the general understanding of the word has moved towards the 'real chicks get treated like shit' idea now.
was my understanding but prepared to be wrong.

(Although I am informed and inspired by some elememts of traditional feminism.)

Good. Apologies once more for the vitriol earlier.
(weeelll, vitriol by Netmum's standards!)

sorry no, talking about champagne's link.

..ane the whole think about an unscripted piece is that anything can happen. The language of docu translated to porn!

okay, night night.
up since five again again.
six kids into central london for ds's birthday treat. what was i thinking?
will check in tomorrow.

onebatmother this is the thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/2724/425689

My man is a perv,no doubt.

yes mt think that too, it coincided with push towards less apparently'directed' stuff in tv/film. and as with those media, 'reality' brings a whole new set of questions about the possibility of ever 'documenting reality'.

was a reaction to the plasticization of mainstream porn and i think, for a moment, had some kind of relative integrity?

Sorry about mentioning Netmums.
First thing on this thread that really needs to be deleted.

go to bed, obm you must be shattered

he's posting around.

GO TO BED, woman

just came down to get some water! off now.

ok now.