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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be surprised at how many Mumsnetters are fine with pornography? II

735 replies

Judy1234 · 16/11/2007 17:30

Continuing the previous thread - people's sexuality varies hugely and what some people think is disgusting is good fun for others. It's impossible to generalise and say XYZ practice is wrong or repugnant and I agree with the posts at the end of the other thread that porn often just reflects what people do. Obviously you pick where your own interests lie and are glad human beings are diverse.

OP posts:
Ozymandius · 17/11/2007 22:21

"No one really enjoys getting sold," says Angie, who Farley interviewed. "It's like you sign a contract to be raped.

MrsThierryHenry · 17/11/2007 22:34

Maybe this has been said before (don't have time to read 427 posts!) but can I ask the people on this thread who don't have a problem with porn: would you be happy if your mother/ sister/ daughter was featured in a porn mag, and would it not bother you to know that men would be w**king over their image? (this is a genuine question, not rhetorical)

I'm presuming the answer is no; if so I don't understand why it should be considered okay for someone else's mother/ sister, etc to be part of such an industry.

madamez · 17/11/2007 22:58

MrsTH: I would be OK with my mother doing anything she wanted to do. Same for a sister or daughter (I don;t have either). And some of my good close friends are models who have appeared in magazines and whose images are wanked over by men. THey don't mind, why should I?

onebatmother · 17/11/2007 23:01

because it is possible to have an objective opinion madamez? you don't have to think what your friends think. They might have lots of reasons for not minding.

madamez · 17/11/2007 23:07

Well my objective opinion is that it's fine for people to do things that they have chosen to do. I don't think wanking is a bad thing, for starters.

onebatmother · 17/11/2007 23:15

um no nor do i.

MrsThierryHenry · 17/11/2007 23:21

Yes, I find the idea of an 'objective' opinion a curious one, too!

Madamez, my point is that porn turns women into objects and many people (surprisingly many men) who use porn have a totally different outlook when they are asked to imagine their own daughter in that context, as it turns the 'object' back into a person.

So a woman who doesn't mind being featured in a pornographic film would most likely find that her father objects rather strongly. Would you honestly think that father would have no right to object?

LaDiDaDi · 18/11/2007 01:02

I think that I've finally come to the end of this thread, and managed to read most of the last one before it got to over 1000 posts.

I, having previously not been very interested in/not really thought much about it tbh, will probably never be a visual porn consumer (for want of a better word) again because I think it is too difficult to be sure that those involved are doing so entirely of their own volition from a position of actually having true choices. I say probably because I can see that if there was better industry regulation etc etc then possibly I could change my mind. I appreciate though that for me this decision is an easy one as I'm not particulrly interested in pornography any way, a bit like someone not really liking meat and deciding to become vegetarian because they are worried about animal welfare.

I do think though that if it were truly possible to ensure the valid consent of all performers then pornography in itself should not necessarily be considered exploitative/degrading to women. It should be possible to accept that there are sexual practices that as an individual you would feel degrading by taking part in or watching but that are not necessarily so to others of the same gender.

madamez · 18/11/2007 10:27

MrsTH - A woman is not her father's property. He is entitled to his opinions and feelings about her career choice, but he's not entitled to try to stop an adult acting as that adult sees fit. My parents objected to some of the stuff I did, we argued about it but got over it - my viewpoint was that I was not doing it to hurt them, I was sorry if they were unhappy about it, but that I didn;t give a flying fuck what their friends or neighbours thought.

Monkeytrousers · 18/11/2007 11:11

Oh FGS, of course wanking isn't 'bad'. Sex isn';t bad. Industrial porn morally dubious - that's a fact

Original poster
Judy1234 · 18/11/2007 11:58

"would you be happy if your mother/ sister/ daughter was featured in a porn mag, and would it not bother you to know that men would be w**king over their image? (this is a genuine question, not rhetorical)"

You just have a different mind set from some of us. It doesn't mean you're right or we're wrong but the fact you can't believe people think like the pro porn people do is fascinating.

Why should I have sexual hang ups about the human body. I love naked pictures. The human body is one of the most beautiful things on earth. All the old painters always painted it. And why not? So, no I wouldn't. I would have concerns if something they did might jeopardise their employment prospects but that's me being annoyed with how some other people view that type of activity and wanting that prevailing view to change rather than having an objection to the sale per se.

OP posts:
Monkeytrousers · 18/11/2007 12:49

Oh FS Xenia, no one has hang ups about sex or thew human body, but the morality of an industry predicated on the massive exploitation of women - and children too actually.

It's like talking to a child.

I think there is little need to add to anything - the moral argument is there for everyone to see. Nothing more needs to be added

lucyellensmum · 18/11/2007 13:43

"Maybe this has been said before (don't have time to read 427 posts!) but can I ask the people on this thread who don't have a problem with porn: would you be happy if your mother/ sister/ daughter was featured in a porn mag, and would it not bother you to know that men would be w**king over their image? (this is a genuine question, not rhetorical)" by Mrs theiryhenry?

OK - this might not sit well with some people but this is my standpoint. Were it my mother i would just thing - eeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwww, shes 73!!! gross
I have a 17 year old daughter, if she were in a porn film i would be HORRIFIED and personally castrate all concerned (even if she earnt a million pounds doing so and directed it herself!). However, if IF she was in a magazine like playboy then, providing i knew that she was totally OK with it, had chosen to do it and the pictures were not graphic or showing sex scenes then actually, i would be quite proud of her. Maybe i am being niave but my daughter is BEAUTIFUL and turns heads in the street. IF she CHOSE to do that then i would have no problems, i would probably insist on accompanying her to photoshoots etc and i might feel a bit uncomfortable but if we had control, why not?? But then i do think that saucy mags are a whole different ball game from porn films which i would NOT be happy about.

JeremyVile · 18/11/2007 13:45

So, the answer to that question is a resounding YES, LEM!

NoNameToday · 18/11/2007 13:47

Unfortunately lucyellensmum, I think it is sometimes just a slippery step from one to the other, particularly when it is a few years hence nad the fresh dewy eyed look has gone, and other fresher 'meat' is on the market.

lucyellensmum · 18/11/2007 13:48

not sure what you mean jeremy

JeremyVile · 18/11/2007 13:50

Er.... I meant no, a resounding NO!!

(I was too busy singing along to the cbeebies washing/teeth brushing song....it's like aural Crack that tune... )

JeremyVile · 18/11/2007 13:51

Sorry, I was just noting that the exceptions you say you would be happy with are not really representative of what most would class as porn.

lucyellensmum · 18/11/2007 13:53

i suppose it is easy for me to say all that seeing as my DD is quite the feminist and doesnt like that sort of thing. I just think that i was defining the differences, i certainly wouldnt want DD to make a career of it.

lucyellensmum · 18/11/2007 13:55

Yes, i think that is a very good point Jeremy. Oh and i so know what you mean about the song (ohhhhh, brush your teeth in circles................arrrrgghhh)

Original poster
Judy1234 · 18/11/2007 13:56

Lots of feminists like porn by the way. There's certainly a reasonably large subset of them that do.

Anyway clearly there's a gulf of views on this point. Thank goodness (so far) it's still a lawful activity.

OP posts:
lucyellensmum · 18/11/2007 13:59

I consider myself a feminist (shock horror a SAHM who is a feminist, how can this be ) and i like porn.

madamez · 18/11/2007 14:25

Monkeytrousers, saying that 'industrial' porn, by which I assume you mean all porn commercially produced and sold in quantities, is morally dubious is not a fact. It's an opinion.

DaddyJ · 18/11/2007 14:36

Come on, MT, that's not fair towards children.
Children are full of curiosity and want to find out about their world.

If they don't understand something,
more often than not it is because you have failed to explain it properly.

Monkeytrousers · 18/11/2007 14:59

You are deluded if that is what you think Madamez. But you have a vested interest in thinking that way and your bias, very public bias, explains why you would go to such lengths to turn a blind eye to the onjective and huge documented evedence of exploitation in the sex industies.

DaddyJ, it has been explained in great lengths here, but most chose to ignore the important nuance and detail of the argument and, it seems, are having arguments with phantoms.

It gets very boring after a while. I think this thread ended last night. See you around on the boards.