to be surprised at how many Mumsnetters are fine with pornography? II

[Judy1234]

Continuing the previous thread - people's sexuality varies hugely and what some people think is disgusting is good fun for others. It's impossible to generalise and say XYZ practice is wrong or repugnant and I agree with the posts at the end of the other thread that porn often just reflects what people do. Obviously you pick where your own interests lie and are glad human beings are diverse.

No DaddyJ, again you jump to an extreme conclusion. I am not suggesting that, but it is a risk. That's a fact.

As for the OP, it's a matter of her personal taste. You cannot argue with that. Some men don't like watching porn because it isn't to their taste either. I think the actor Val Kilmer was quoted somewhere saying that.

My partner finds it distasteful. That's not to say we both couldn't be aroused by it - we are human after all and it talks to all humans in a very basic language. I just prefer not to entangle myself with somehting I objectivly know to be a very murky industry. That's all porn, even the bog standard stuff. And I actually have seen a lot of it for study purposes, more than I would have liked.

This woman for instance. I was intregued so took a look at her site and to be honest, couldn't say that it was common or garden porn. She does seem to have a very high libido (and pain threshold) but I don't think she is typical of most women, though perhaps more typical, in reletive terms, to some women in the industry. It stands to reason that you will have a higher proportion of women with higher libido's in the porn industry, but that is still far from being representative of women on the whole, if you see what I mean - and some women are afraid that people, especally young people will think it is. They might have a point, I dunno yet.

Certainly, having her espouse porn as a viable job for young women, when she is by any degree, quite extraordinary in her tastes, is a bit silly of the Guardian.

BTW, don't look on her site if any of you don't want to be shocked

She was raped to make the film Kittock. How do you feel about having watched a film of a woman being raped?

"But not all women in the industry are being prostituted or abused."

If a woman is being paid to have sex she is by definition being prostituted, whether there are cameras there or not.

But what are people proposing? To ban sex magazines and videos?To ban women who are paid for sexual activity (which in a sense thank God might ban that dreadful housewife model of living, where a woman gives sex in return for money perhaps the worst prostitution on the planet - at least with that we might get women in proper jobs. As long as it's easier to stay home and iron shirts and get your money that way women won't go forth and run this country and indeed run porn empires)

I'm not sure that's true Elizabetth..mens gentials are pretty discusting too if you are not 'attached' to them emotionally.

"Please don't shoot me porn police!" - very unhelpful. It's not a slanging match, it's a debate about which people feel very strongly.

..and fanjo's sure 'aint pretty close up either

Lol Xenia, I knew you would say something along those lines

That is amazing Elizabetth - you wouldn't think all those women's genitals would sell so many magazines if the consumers found them so disgusting.

But seriously, sexual response is really really complex. More than anything else in human brains I'll wager. There's no point getting wrapped up in what does and doesn't turn people on. Why don't we see if we can all decide what we think ought to be done about the really bad exploitative stuff instead.

Just a suggestion.

But Xenia, isn't that a bit like "if you can't beat em, join em?" - that's nowhere near equality as I imagine it.

Eliz ""for someone so disgusted by the porn industry and who feels it is so degrading you watch an awfull lot of it elizabeth."

Missed this. I can't win can I? Either I'm accused of not knowing what I'm talking about or I'm accused of being a pornhound ( and how could that be a bad thing when you all think it's so great). "

I think this is a fair point. But you don't have to 'win' remember, that isn't the point, so you don't need to be drawn by such tactics. Sorry if that sounds patronising.

Oh I don't know. Racial hate literature features images of its targets. Doesn't mean those people have the warm fuzzies about those they are abusing.

Anyhow, how do you feel about having watched Deep Throat now you know that Linda Lovelace was raped to make it, Kittock?

Kittock, you don't have to respect a vagina to want to look at one.

Oh Xenia, don't be so silly.

mamazon, she reads about it. Yes, I could not believe it either.

Elisabetth, let me repeat this point until you get it:

Your op said hate porn had gone mainstream.
cestlavie showed us that Bangbros is the most popular commercial porn site.
The categories and the imagery on Bangbros does not contain anything that you go on about (rape, violence, double anal).

Ergo: hate porn has not gone mainstream.

You refuse to, in fact you cannot, look at the evidence.
You have no credibility.

I think I would need to do some proper research into the Linda Lovelace case before I can comment on that Elizabetth

"It's funny how men don't put themselves through university doing the same thing isn't it, Walnutshell?"

I worked a few times as a male escort to give me some extra cash at uni. does that count?

I didn't feel exploited and had some interesting experiences, both sexually and otherwise.

I watched Animal Farm years ago, I thought it was unpleasant and wondered how the participants could do it... they were all consenting though as far as i know. It's more an issue about animal cruelty than female exploitation surely?

MT I try not to be - my point is that I'm being hit from both sides, with tactics that I haven't used toward the pro-porn people here.

I'm really just highlighting the dishonest rhetorical devices being used which do get in the way of debate.

Sexual response isn't complex - quite the opposite, that's why porn is so successful. It does differ between the sexes though

Elizabetth,
Just want to ask a question. Through the thread, you have been talking about horrendous aspects of porn, I don't think anyone can deny it.

But, what do you think of a loving couple filming themselves having sex, or taken photos?

Do you realise that some women want to be in porn, just as some want to be Topless models etc?

and so you should

MT, this is not about consuming porn,
but about reviewing the evidence and coming
to a measured conclusion.

You cannot do that if you are physically unable
to look at the evidence.

Even in child abuse cases the jury has to sit
through the evidence and, as far as I know,
review the releveant footage/pictures.

I don't think racial hate literature is comparable with your average jazz mag.

Hang on daddyJ, just becasue bangbros doesn't contain douple anal doesn't mean other mainstream stuff does. It does!

This is my problem jofeb04 - people are getting defensive about porn because they are limiting their imaginations to that which can be regarded as 'safe' but that just isn't a true picture. More's the pity.

Zebedee - when retelling how you were a male escort to get through uni you probably expect and receive a pat on the back. If you were a female and "twizzled" around pole, you would not generally get the same response. Do you get the difference yet?

That post takes us almost right back the the beginning Jofe, and round we go again...