to be surprised at how many Mumsnetters are fine with pornography? II

[Judy1234]

Continuing the previous thread - people's sexuality varies hugely and what some people think is disgusting is good fun for others. It's impossible to generalise and say XYZ practice is wrong or repugnant and I agree with the posts at the end of the other thread that porn often just reflects what people do. Obviously you pick where your own interests lie and are glad human beings are diverse.

If I started a mooncup thread saying how
silly the idea is
I would be laughed out of town, Elisabetth!

What makes you think you can get away with
accusing MNers of being complacent when all
your information is 2nd/3rd hand and exclusively focuses on the negatives?

hold on, MT, just reading your previous post -
bloody fast-moving this!

Again DaddyJ, I ask - how much and how varied a diet of porn does one have to digest before able to comment?

She says she was raped to make the film. Chuck Traynor was a violent pimp and a criminal, Kittock.

The denial levels rise once again as the truth about porngraphy and exactly what is turning people on comes out.

Zebedee I'm sorry, I wouldn't normally say this, but I don't believe you. The clients of male escorts are overwhelmingly men even if the escort himself is straight. One of the themes in porn for anybody who is willing to notice it, is male self-delusion.

The fact that a woman being used in bestiality doesn't even make you balk means that I'm not going to engage with you any further. Our beliefs about humanity and every person's right to dignity are too far apart.

If a woman is being paid to have sex she is by definition being prostituted, whether there are cameras there or not.

i have no problem with prostitution either. obviously there are aspects to this "proffession" that need regulation to ensure teh safety of teh women involved but in broad terms i do not object to prostitution.

How do i feel about watchign Deep throat. i dont remember seeingany rape scenes. im not even sure im thinking of the correct film. (she goes to the Dr as she can't orgasm, teh Dr finds that her clitoris is down her throat - is that the right one?)

if is is the correct film i only remember that particular scene.

As for Animal farm i switched it off as the idea that a woman would find it enjoyable to have intercourse with an animal is distastefull to me. but from waht i know of the woman she was a porn actress for many years, she left the industry and bought a farm. she got very friendly with her animals and would have sex with them frequantly. an old porn producer came to visit her and found out about her "relationship" with her animals and offered large amounts of cash to let him film her.

she was clearly a very troubled woman.
yes the producer saw an oppertunity and took advantage of it. but he hadn't forced her to do anything she hadn't been doing already.
i dont like the idea of it and i wouldn't wish to see it again but its not a film that could define the entire industry.

Im trying not to defend teh industry in general as there are some aspects of it that i find disgusting. and women are often encouraged to go further than they normally would by film makers who see them only as a comodity. but this is true of the men in the industry as well.
in fact its true of many industries.

DaddyJ - a mooncup or porn? Hardly the same league. That's the point - not much is in the same league. Why make such unhelpful comparisons?

I expect if Eliz did watch some of what you suggest her opinion would be, umm, the same...

"i have no problem with prostitution either. obviously there are aspects to this "proffession" that need regulation to ensure teh safety of teh women involved but in broad terms i do not object to prostitution."

BUT! That is the context in which prostitution exists - unregulated, unsafe - so your lack of objection is irrelevant!

Bodil Joensen was in Animal Farm, another sad story. There was a C$ documentory about her - details at bottom of the link

"But, what do you think of a loving couple filming themselves having sex, or taken photos?"

I think they are inspired by porn, it's a monkey see, monkey do situation. Also I think the woman in the situation has to be very careful because the so-called "loving" male partner may be very keen to pass the images round his friends or post them on the internet as a trophy (reader's wives anyone?). It happens a lot much to the woman's detriment.

"Do you realise that some women want to be in porn, just as some want to be Topless models etc?"

Again I think it's promoted so heavily as somehting acceptable and the fact that so many other avenues are closed to women, it seems like an attractive option. Wanting money and attention isn't wrong per se, what's sad is that young women have to take their clothes off to get it. Young men don't have the same problem.

How much regislation (sp?) is there in the industry (I don't know the legal side)?

off on a break now - catch up later

How much regulation in prostitution, jofeb04? Have you heard of human trafficking...?

Myself and dh's photos were never from the thought of porn.

It is experimenting!

Walnut, there is no need to have consumed any porn to comment here but
you need to be able to review the evidence that
we put before you - otherwise how can you comment on it?

Walnutshell, legislation in porn.

Human trafficing is another aspect all together (for example, many drug dealers in the area I live in have been illegally brought in).

"I expect if Eliz did watch some of what you suggest her opinion would be, umm, the same..."

Yup that's exactly right. DaddyJ thinks I haven't seen any porn but the thing is I have. I've seen the stuff that the people think is OK. They think it's OK because now there is something much worse to compare it to. It was always awful, it's just got even worse.

Our boundaries, our empathy our sense of humanity are gradually being eroded and it's women who suffer the most from this. Look at Zebbidee, only concerned with the animals involved in bestiality, completely callous about the effect on a woman's psyche that something like that would have. But hey men want to see women xxxxxx xx x xxx in a farmyard so who cares what it does to them.

Ok, I'm off. This is one discussion that can go round and round (as it has many times before!)

MT, I am not asking anyone to go and enjoy themselves
on Bangbros - this is a serious debate about
our liberties and about what kind of society we
want to live in.

We need to take the trouble to inform ourselves,
there is no way around it.

Particularly if one chooses to argue that porn should be banned
because gang rape is now mainstream.

Regarding your last post, maybe I am leading a sheltered porn life
but I have not come across double anal in mainstream porn.
Would that not be extremely painful for the blokes, too?

What is relevant, Elisabetth, is that you cannot watch
the evidence I put in front of you.

That's what robs you of any credibility.

I have seen Animal Farm, in fact it may have been you I discussed it with previouslt Elizabetth, it was disgusting, but it was ILLEGAL, pron is not ILLEGAL, there is the difference.

Not once has anyone said that women are never abused or degraded in porn, not once.

However, woman and men are raped and abused on a daily basis in the real world, it is a horrible fact, but true, so of course you are going to be able to find stories in which women in the porn industry were abused. Just like you can find women in any industry that have been abused, it isn't porn's fault, it is society that allows this to happen, and not because of porn.

I have said this time and time again, maybe porn needs stricter controls, Maybe those films in which there seesm to be violence (which may be acted or even enjoyed) should have more regulations around filming. The porn industry is possible to change, but to do that people need to accept there is nothing wrong with porn per se, just people who abuse it.

EDUCATION, Is the answer, I know my children will not end up in porn against their wishes, because of the way I shall teach them about sex, relationships, feelings and respect, so if they do end up in porn, then it will be their choice as it is something they want to do, not because of some misinformed view of what they should be or what they should do.

i've seen animal farm. It isn't a 'film' per se, it is a series of short clips put together

I don't know anyone who watched it saw it as titilating or erotic. Everyone I know watched it as an OMG freak show.

Yes, the woman was damaged, possibly even deranged. That can never be called mainstream and is very much a niche

Linda Lovelace, she was in an abusive relationship, he put her in porn. A friend of mine was amde to sit in a corner if her arsehole partner felt like it. Abuse is abuse, lindas was sexual, many other women are abused in a different way. One maniac doesn't make all porn bad

"The clients of male escorts are overwhelmingly men even if the escort himself is straight. One of the themes in porn for anybody who is willing to notice it, is male self-delusion."

You don't have a clue do you... they are not. Typically, I escorted a woman to a dinner date, she paid me, and i went home, for example. I never had a male client in the six months i did it. I was an escort not a rent-boy. Yours is the delusion, not mine.

And since when has this been a theme in porn? Porn is not an intellectual endeavour fgs, you won't find Fellini, or Scorsese directing it. It's about people having sex. The delusion, if any, is always in the eye of the beholder.

"Zebedee - when retelling how you were a male escort to get through uni you probably expect and receive a pat on the back. If you were a female and "twizzled" around pole, you would not generally get the same response. Do you get the difference yet?"

No, I don't expect a pat on the back... why would I? The difference as far as i see is in society's acceptance of the male in this role and not the female, or have i missed something?

"I think they are inspired by porn, it's a monkey see, monkey do situation. Also I think the woman in the situation has to be very careful because the so-called "loving" male partner may be very keen to pass the images round his friends or post them on the internet as a trophy (reader's wives anyone?). It happens a lot much to the woman's detriment.
"

Why the male??? I have seen my friends boyfriends penis on her phone camera, is that not the same as him showing people her on his???

Only in your eyes DaddyJ and maybe a few of the porn-defenders. Although you keep engaging with me, I'm guessing if you thought I really had no credibility you wouldn't feel the need to bother.

Robert Jensen did watch porn to report back on it. Have you read his article that I linked to up there? How would rate his credibility. And more importantly what do you think of the contents of his article and his descriptions of cruelty in mainstream porn?

Well then what you are describing isn't sexual Zebbidee and thus has nothing to do with this discussion which is about commerical exploitation of women's bodies.

When people use the term "escort" they usually mean someone who is paid to have sex (whether male or female). There virtually no market for men to be paid for sex by women, men's clients are almost always other men.