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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Erikrie · 18/05/2021 12:03

happy International Day Against Homophobia, and Biphobia!

Nonmaquillee · 18/05/2021 12:04

I only read some of the OP and simply didn't understand what this person's rant about going to the toilet had to do with homophobia.

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 12:05

Btw op, if your friend is likely to make a stinking mess in their underwear then I suggest they use the toilet that corresponds with the sex they were born as.

Helleofabore · 18/05/2021 12:06

MrsWooster

Be assured that you are not the only person who wonders.

Claire4567 · 18/05/2021 12:06

@Biber

Here's a question OP. If I said I was white on the outside but identified as a black person would that mean I had the right to claim I was black, to say I understood the racism and oppression, and to be an eligible recipient for any positive discrimination schemes? If not, why not?

In the same way a person cannot be a race or an age they are not, a person cannot be the opposite sex.

Jux · 18/05/2021 12:07

Perfect illustration of how to completely and utterly miss the point, right there, op, laid out in your op. I suspect you know exactly what you've done there and are hoping for a big hoo-ha and plenty of fodder with which to 'prove' how tphobic everyone is.

I wish MN would just diarrhoea-colour posts/threads instead of deleting them.

Flaunch · 18/05/2021 12:07

Fucking yawn.

This is a men’s issue. If men who want to behave in a more stereotypically female way don’t feel comfortable in their own men’s toilets because of other men, it’s for men to sort out.

Actual women don’t need to be involved.

Sort your shit out men.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 18/05/2021 12:08

As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid...

This is so patronising I cringed. OP do you really not think we know trans people, like all people, are individuals?!

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

Yet no mention from you of gay, lesbian or bisexual people.

Fitforforty · 18/05/2021 12:08

@Biber

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

@Biber That is far too long and waffly to draw much out of it. It reads like it is written by a young teenager and it’s distracting. Please can you condense it down to a couple of bullet points.
BrumBoo · 18/05/2021 12:08

I imagine the vast majority of whom are or were white, heterosexual men at some point in their privileged lives.

Many come from the Incel community. Men, who for various reasons, cannot find women who will date or have sex with them. Many have found that if they stick on a rainbow wig and call themselves 'Alexis' that suddenly their 'creep' label is suddenly gone, and people who are determined to find absolutely zero wrong with current trans ideology (eg if they say they're female then they are, #nodebate) will defend their awful, sexually aggressive behaviours no matter what. These men who were thought awful for harassing women before discovering their change of gender are now being supported in harassing lesbian and bi women, screaming bigot at them for not accepting what is obviously a biological male as a sexual partner.

JustcameoutGC · 18/05/2021 12:08

@BlackForestCake

Is it me or is International Day Against Transphobia celebrated roughly every three weeks?
Grin
Bluedeblue · 18/05/2021 12:10

OP, I agree with you, but on Mumsnet there is no empathy for trans people, just dogma for a risk which is miniscule at best

Tell that to the 5 women who were raped by an Trans woman inmate, who still had his penis, but had been placed into a women's prison regardless. I'm sure they don't mind that they were raped, cos, you know, the risk was miniscule, so it doesn't really count.

Trans man's "feelings" trump the female inmates rights to be kept safe.

Mowzy · 18/05/2021 12:11

@MaxNormal

To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you

The experience of women, right there.

👏👏👏👏👏

DialSquare · 18/05/2021 12:12

Stinking mess is also a good description of the situation we are in now because of people like the OP. Virtue signallers who don't seem to have a critical thought in their head as to where we would end up if this ideology is allowed to run its full course.

Mowzy · 18/05/2021 12:13

@Tibtom

Just to clear a few things up.

There are more transwomen murderers in the uk than there are transwomen who have been murdered.

Transwomen commit crime at the same rate as other men and half of transwomen prisoners are there for sex offences.

The vast majority of transwomen do no have any surgery and to identify as trans you do not need to make any changes to your appearance - no surgery, hormones, feminie clothing or a shave is required.

Women are 18 times more likely to be assaulted in mixed sex (cubicle) changing rooms.

Women are entitled to safety, privacy and dignity and even if you don't mind you are not entitled to remove this from other women.

All of this. 👏

Imasoulman · 18/05/2021 12:13

@Meirou90

No one is forcing trans women to use male bathrooms. They made the choice to transition, and with transition comes sacrifice. They knew before and after of the complications that arise with their life choice, and should’ve weighed up the pros and cons of transitioning.

" Life choice"
Really!! Wow

Naunet · 18/05/2021 12:13

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

Ugh, like we need any more of these stupid frickin’ days. Jesus Christ it’s constant. And by the way OP, your post seems to only be about trans, does transphobia out rank homophobia?

TheGumption · 18/05/2021 12:15

[quote Claire4567]@Biber

Here's a question OP. If I said I was white on the outside but identified as a black person would that mean I had the right to claim I was black, to say I understood the racism and oppression, and to be an eligible recipient for any positive discrimination schemes? If not, why not?

In the same way a person cannot be a race or an age they are not, a person cannot be the opposite sex.[/quote]
Very well put. I completely agree.
It feels like the tide is beginning to turn on this matter. Albeit excruciatingly slowly. I believe people who push their agenda aggressively will actually contribute to further alienation of certain communities.

Imasoulman · 18/05/2021 12:15

@Hallyup6

Nobody is denying you the toilet. They just want you to use the right one for your sex. I don't want anyone male, who thinks they're a woman or otherwise, using the same space as me. I equally don't want my daughter, who wants to be male, using toilets with adult men.

I suppose it could be argued that trans people have mental health issues and are therefore disabled. I'd accept that as a solution.

Trans people are mentally disabled!!! Are you for real?
BrumBoo · 18/05/2021 12:17

@Imasoulman, as much as its a life choice to believe in a god. Doesn't seem like a choice to others, but just because they fundamentally believe it's real there is (thus far) no proof that gender is any more real than a religion.

Sophoclesthefox · 18/05/2021 12:17

That’s not what she said, imasoulman.

Tibtom · 18/05/2021 12:19

Imasoulman nowhere in the post by Hallyup6 do they say mentally disabled.

Helleofabore · 18/05/2021 12:19

[quote financialrecovery]@UhtredRagnarson Yes I did. Absolutely in the context that trans people are a minority massively discriminated against, and in the context that when conversations are brought to light, the first thing people say is "what about women?"

Well what about women? What about men?
The conversation isn't about women or men, it's about the trans experience.[/quote]
I think financialrecovery that you are happily ignoring that to accommodate the needs outlined in the thread, the OP there has insisted on a solution that directly impacts women.

So, no. I also disagree with you on this:

Also we aren't discussing women's rights. She was discussing trans.

It's like discussing racism and saying "what about white people?"

OP is not discussing alternative ways to accommodate the needs of males who identify as women and females, that did not impinge on the needs for females to have toilets that reflect their needs for single sex spaces rather than single gender spaces. So, women stating 'what about female's needs' is actually rather appropriate.

Please do not silence women from stating their needs when there is conflict. That is the theme of this OP and your post has continued in that same theme.

Tal45 · 18/05/2021 12:19

Are you MtF OP? If so well done, you really seem to have mansplaining down.

Tal45 · 18/05/2021 12:20

@Tal45

Are you MtF OP? If so well done, you really seem to have mansplaining down.
*FtM