A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

[Biber]

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

No one is forcing trans women to use male bathrooms. They made the choice to transition, and with transition comes sacrifice. They knew before and after of the complications that arise with their life choice, and should’ve weighed up the pros and cons of transitioning.

@2020in2020

Any suggestions on how we tackle homophobia or biphobia OP? Or do they not matter?

Quite.

I read somewhere (probably on here) along the lines of: how comfortable would men feel if women were invading their spaces BUT women were usually a foot taller than them and considerably stronger, and some prone to sexual violence.

They have been through enough

And therefore women's safety, privacy, dignity, access to sex specific services (including a female forensic examiner following a brutal rape), sports, representation, research on things that impact women such as medical treatment or car safety, accessible health information, etc etc should all be removed? Because these men think they have 'been through enough'

[quote Caplin]@CuriousaboutSamphire I have a large number of good trans and non-binary friends, and I have seen the nonsense they have to put up with to just live their lives quietly. Frankly the stuff that people get upset about should be a non issue. They have been through enough and forcing transwomen into male spaces and vice versa is wrong.[/quote]
And who decides what "should be a non issue"?

That was a rhetorical question, by the way. We all know who decides what women should worry their pretty little heads about.

How is it possible to combine anti homophobia and transphobia in one day?

The first says you have the right to prefer someone of the same sex as you, snd to be forced otherwise is hateful

The other says it's gender not sex that matters , so to refuse something on the basis of their sex is hateful

@financialrecovery

*The issue isn't that people don't want trans people in sex segregated spaces. It's that there are people pretending to be trans who have a different agenda*

The thing I don't get about this is that if you wanted to invade a toilet or changing room to attack or ogle women, surely it would be easier just to don a hi vis and a cloth and pretend to be a cleaner, than pretend to be trans?

I think that's why it feels anti trans to me. The suggestion that trans people would take advantage of this. I can see the point in prisons for example. But in public anybody can walk in to a women's toilet. Nobody stops you. Why are trans targeted?

It does muddy the waters to have male cleaners in the women's loos, but I've noticed there are often signs on the door where this may be the case, to warn women that sometimes there might be a man inside. Until very, very recently, anybody seeing an adult or teenager who was obviously male going into the ladies' would know he was up to no good and would either challenge him directly or would alert someone in authority. Now we're told to ignore all our instincts and life experience, and give the person the benefit of the doubt - they know best, we know nothing. The end result of this is that many women and girls will stop using public toilets. We're already seeing this in schools that have introduced gender neutral toilets. Girls are just not going to the loo, and to facilitate that, they're not drinking all day, which is very bad for health.

[quote Caplin]@CuriousaboutSamphire I have a large number of good trans and non-binary friends, and I have seen the nonsense they have to put up with to just live their lives quietly. Frankly the stuff that people get upset about should be a non issue. They have been through enough and forcing transwomen into male spaces and vice versa is wrong.[/quote]
And what are they doing about setting up spaces for themselves?

Do you understand that females are not support humans and that some females also have needs that mean that including males will exclude them. Exclude them from public life yet again.

We DO understand that trans people have needs. What we don't see is the same level of understanding being extended to females who also have needs to exclude males, however they present.

And while you are here, can you provide us some reliable statistics that will allow us to make informed decisions that males who transition do not commit crimes of the same type and rate as other males? Because, having looked at the prison statistics, I see no reassurance that this is the case.

No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy.

Well said OP, that's one thing we agree on. I only feel comfortable (and safe) using single sex toilets.

The men's toilet thing , is about other men not liking a penis owner entering wearing make up and feminine clothing, and about men making Transwoman face up to just how unsettling what they are doing is.
So these penis owners then DEMAND woman back down to accommodate them.
If TWAW then just why did OP write that rant to shame us.

@LalalalalalaLand123

Any further comments OP *@Biber* ? Or did you just make your post to be goady and misogynistic? Thought so.

I've reported - not least because it is in AIBU when there isnt actually an "AIBU" question. I know people do it "for traffic", but to drop and run is so annoying!

I don't know how anyone can look at this picture of laurel Hubbard and think hubbard is oppressed. Biologically male, white, millionaire taking places from women of colour. This isn't progressive.

I agree the trans umbrella includes lots of people who have very little in common but that's the fault of people who decided that you didn't need to have dysmorphia to be trans. And who started including drag queens and crossdressers in the group.

That'll be Stonewall. Once gay marriage laws were passed, they had to find some way to keep that gravy train running. So they adopted the T as their cause du jour. But the T - i.e., the old style transsexuals, who did have surgery and who did co-exist fine with biological women - were vanishingly small in number. So then, every Tom Dick and Pervert were enveloped under the "most oppressed" umbrella. I imagine the vast majority of whom are or were white, heterosexual men at some point in their privileged lives.

Nobody is denying you the toilet. They just want you to use the right one for your sex. I don't want anyone male, who thinks they're a woman or otherwise, using the same space as me. I equally don't want my daughter, who wants to be male, using toilets with adult men.

I suppose it could be argued that trans people have mental health issues and are therefore disabled. I'd accept that as a solution.

See below WARNING before you open the thread

twitter.com/heke_nig/status/1383631390701281286?s=21

Posted up thread but this is why women want single sex toilets and changing rooms.

WARNING: shows transwomen masturbating in female toilets and recording themselves, with the recordings subsequently used on porn sites. There are also transwomen having sex in female changing rooms.

In some you can hear women and children in nearby cubicle, this seems to be sexually exciting for one transwomen.

It seems not all transwomen want to access female spaces just to pee... unfortunately women can’t tell the difference

@Tibtom

Just to clear a few things up.

There are more transwomen murderers in the uk than there are transwomen who have been murdered.

Transwomen commit crime at the same rate as other men and half of transwomen prisoners are there for sex offences.

The vast majority of transwomen do no have any surgery and to identify as trans you do not need to make any changes to your appearance - no surgery, hormones, feminie clothing or a shave is required.

Women are 18 times more likely to be assaulted in mixed sex (cubicle) changing rooms.

Women are entitled to safety, privacy and dignity and even if you don't mind you are not entitled to remove this from other women.

👏👏👏👏👏

Laurel Hubbard must be mentally ill.
How else can they not see how unfair it is? Or do they just not care? Where is the sense of achievement? They were mediocre in the male category and are about 15 years older than most of those competing in either group.
Why are they suddenly winning? Could it be because they have a natural biological advantage.
It makes me so mad, if they were a decent human they’d recognise it as cheating and not feel achievement. I can beat my 4 year old in a race, yay, go me. Not really the same achievement as beating someone who is an adult, is it?

So either LH is mentally ill or they are not a very nice person.

Make.it.stop.

@PronounssheRa

I don't know how anyone can look at this picture of laurel Hubbard and think hubbard is oppressed. Biologically male, white, millionaire taking places from women of colour. This isn't progressive.

I think that the postures of the two women in this photo say it all, really.

No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy.

It is a male perspective, too, that the only thing that female's do in toilets is restricted to urination and defecation. The need for privacy in female toilets actually extend to the public areas of the room. And any parent with a pram will know the need to jam a pram or stroller into a doorway and have the door wide open dealing with period issues. Maybe even flooding period issues.

Or drying fronts from having washed out milk from exploding breasts, vomit, coffee, lunch.

Or taking an elderly person to the toilet because there is no accessible toilet or it is full.

Or washing bloody hands.

Or any number of things that doesn't seem to cross people's minds unless they have had to actually deal with it. And no acknowledgement that those dealing with these issues feel uncomfortable enough without the inclusion of males into the loos (however they present).

@PronounssheRa

I don't know how anyone can look at this picture of laurel Hubbard and think hubbard is oppressed. Biologically male, white, millionaire taking places from women of colour. This isn't progressive.

Tha picture breaks my heart every time I see it. Just look at the faces of the women.

Posters agreeing with the OP, how do you defend this?

You’ve had a lot of good engagement on this, OP, including some supportive posts. are you going to engage with any of it, or was this really just a drive by to tell women about your toiletting preferences?

The sheer breathtaking arrogance of that poster from the University of Bristol is just something else...
"They know better than you" - oh, really???

What is actually GOING ON in universities these days?

I can’t be the only person who wonders about the good faith of a plopper who talks about “stinking mess” in underwear ahem, poo troll

@nolongersurprised

See below WARNING before you open the thread

twitter.com/heke_nig/status/1383631390701281286?s=21

Posted up thread but this is why women want single sex toilets and changing rooms.

WARNING: shows transwomen masturbating in female toilets and recording themselves, with the recordings subsequently used on porn sites. There are also transwomen having sex in female changing rooms.

In some you can hear women and children in nearby cubicle, this seems to be sexually exciting for one transwomen.

It seems not all transwomen want to access female spaces just to pee... unfortunately women can’t tell the difference

This link needs plenty of air and sunlight. It seems this is a growing issue and will continue to grow. The number of profiles I have visited recently on twitter to see who a poster is only to discover content like this that is not behind an age confirmation wall, is proof of that.