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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Helleofabore · 20/05/2021 15:22

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Ye gods Helleofabore

A passing 'sorry everyone' simply is not good enough for that horror!

Klaxon warning required!

It is always eye opening to see it for the first time. You really begin to realise that there are many small groups that make up the whole. This is what many allies simply don't see themselves, or wish to acknowledge.

it is remarkable. Really it is. That a group of people can be presented as being so homogenous as a group, all fitting the labels and mantras that they want you to believe.

In reality, when you start scratching, that simply cannot be upheld. When you have prominent 'influencers' mocking female's toilet habits on IWD on twitter and others joining in, you realise many allies are completely in denial. Why the fuck would you want to have a person who thinks it is hilarious to discuss the sound of pee hitting the toilet bowl in a cubicle next to you? It is all there to see.

Do allies who come here to shame women believe that other females mock females for the same thing?

In fact, @Biber, maybe that is another thing you can clarify. Do you know any female that mocks female's as a group for the sounds they make on the toilet?

Helleofabore · 20/05/2021 15:24

That reads kind of like satire to me..

Hard to tell these days

Sadly, it is not. I remember a poster coming to discuss it on a thread in the past year or two. The thread got deleted, but if I remember correctly, the poster was from that group and wanted attention.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/05/2021 15:26

And now I have a bloody earworm that the back of my head is making up its own lyrics to..

Transmaxxing across the universe
Got a bod like a woman, lovers to coerce...
... and I'll stop there as I will be deleted, banned even! Grin

FOJN · 20/05/2021 15:31

LangClegsInSpace

Thank you for that, I thought the Beaumont Society were bandwagon jumpers not responsible for leading the charge.

Learning about transmaxxing is slightly less welcome education, what the hell are they smoking......and where can I get some?

Helleofabore · 20/05/2021 15:33

@CuriousaboutSamphire

And now I have a bloody earworm that the back of my head is making up its own lyrics to..

Transmaxxing across the universe
Got a bod like a woman, lovers to coerce...
... and I'll stop there as I will be deleted, banned even! Grin

Grin
Fernlake · 20/05/2021 15:40

@LangClegsInSpace

Until Stonewall waded in and widened the umbrella to include all men.

There have been a few posts saying similar things. Unfortunately it's not true.

Here is an early version of the umbrella from 1994. Note the inclusion of 'crossdresser', 'transvestic fetishist' and 'transvestite'. 'Man / Woman' is also included and is defined as 'living in gender appropriate to gender identity & congruent with genitalia' Hmm

(from here: public.oed.com/blog/march-2018-update-release-notes-formal-language-sexuality-gender-identity/ )

The trans rights movement in the UK started with the Beaumont Society - a club for heterosexual cross-dressing men and their wives. Transsexuals were permitted to join but the main focus until relatively recently was definitely male cross-dressers.

www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/6971183/a-short-beaumont-history-the-beaumont-society

The Beaumont Society was started by Alice Purnell, following an epiphany in a soho sex shop. You can hear all about it in this enlightening interview of Alice by best mate Christine Burns:

soundcloud.com/justplainsense/jps90-alice

Burns went on to set up Press For Change with Stephen Whittle (the first ftm member of Beaumont). PFC is the organisation that is pretty much solely responsible for the gender recognition act being passed in 2004. They championed the use of the term 'trans' precisely because it made no distinction between 'transsexual' and 'transvestite'.

So the entire thing was driven by a private club set up for cross dressers?
LangClegsInSpace · 20/05/2021 16:16

So the entire thing was driven by a private club set up for cross dressers?

In the earliest days, yes. The transvestite umbrella widened to include transsexuals quite early on though.

WoolOfBat · 20/05/2021 16:31

I didn’t know about transmaxxing, that is so grim. I went down a rabbit hole looking at it.

The sad part is that all those incels simultaneously seem to think that women have it all AND they are only interested in women if they are drop dead gorgeous in a way that few women are.

Women may have quite a bit of an advantage if they are beautiful. But there are downsides as well, being taken for a bimbo is one.

These males seem to believe that they can transition into a supermodel and retail their male privilege.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 20/05/2021 17:29

Regarding the Beaumont Society, please go to this MN thread and read the pdf of a 2002 article by Amy Bloom.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3815501-Conservative-Men-in-Conservative-Dresses-2002-article

WoolOfBat · 20/05/2021 17:52

That is unbelievable Purgatory

According to that document some males seem to get a sexual kick out of crossdressing. I wonder if they are the ones masturbating in women’s toilets 🤮

I feel so incredibly sorry for all dysphoric people out there. They genuinely want to live their lives as the opposite sex, quietly going about their business and then Stonewall advocates for all these people to enter women’s spaces.

It has to be a blanket no. I am so sorry but it has to be a blanket no.

Erikrie · 20/05/2021 17:56

That is interesting Purgatory. Not surprised though. And the answer definitely has to be no.

LangClegsInSpace · 20/05/2021 18:03

Screenshots from Christine Burns' book - Pressing Matters Vol. 1.

A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....
A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....
A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 20/05/2021 18:10

There are some very disturbing individuals out there. Even men who fish women's used sanitary protection out of bins in toilets. How do you allow safe, respectful natal male individuals without permitting the other ones in, too? It's not like predators and sex offenders have floating signs above their heads.

Trigger warning: absolutely disgusting

twitter.com/tramisogyny/status/1319368861225947136?s=19

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 20/05/2021 18:11

Press for Change - Christine Burns - has worked closely with Stonewall on tactics from what CB has said in the past, posting on Facebook:

“…I don’t share the view that’s clearly held by others about Stonewall. That’s based on the working relationships I have and agreements long ago now about how to avoid tripping over one-another when the Gender Recognition and CP bills were about to be tabled.”

They've certainly worked together on trans activism. That is fighting the current law in order to press for self-ID. All under the radar obviously and via lobbying MPs and other persons of influence.

Erikrie · 20/05/2021 18:16

Even men who fish women's used sanitary protection out of bins in toilets

That is appalling. No. Just no. Why on earth should we be expected to move over to let people like this in, who are getting off on our discomfort and totally invading our privacy. Absolutely no.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 20/05/2021 18:27

Sheridan Sinclair did a potted history of Stonewall yesterday, by the way. Good read. Throughly recommend.

extract

"Where did it all go wrong? In 2015 Stonewall officially ‘added the T’ to LGB and began seriously campaigning in earnest for ‘Trans Rights’. The CEO at the time, Ruth Hunt, admitted that it would be controversial, and it’s important to note how trans rights was framed around the nebulous and loose concept of ‘transgender’ rather than ‘transsexual’, which to this day is still what most people think of when they think of ‘trans’. For those who now think of Stonewall as it currently is as a predominantly transgender pressure group, it will be a shock to look back to even the start of 2015 when Stonewall talk about exclusively advocating for gay, lesbian and bisexual people.

(Continues)

What about the LGB?

Followers of Stonewall noticed that not only were they starting to focus more on trans issues, but they rarely seemed to focus on L, G or B issues anymore. In particular, they seemed to hardly ever use the word ‘lesbian’ at all in social media posts. Here’s a fun game to play – go to twitter advanced search and search for certain words over a set time period from the @stonewalluk twitter account. I chose a year – May 2020 to April 2021 – and here’s what I found out. Over that time a grand total of zero mentions of ‘homosexual’, 4 for ‘homophobia’, 23 for ‘lesbian’, 29 for ‘gay’, 41 for ‘bisexual’ or ‘bi’ and… 215 for ‘trans’. One tweet you won’t find any more in Stonewall’s twitter history, is a tweet originally sent on International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia 2020 (known by the Tolkienesque abbreviation ‘IDAHOBIT’). The employee handling the social media that day made a cardinal sin – referring to ‘same-sex attraction’. This is a big no, and as you may have noticed with zero mentions of homosexuality in the last year, Stonewall UK’s official stance now is that the word ‘homosexuality’ is an offensive or medical term that refers to ‘same gender’ attraction. Same sex attraction is something they officially no longer recognise. And they wonder why we are angry

Continues: sheridansinclair.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-stonewall-uk

WoolOfBat · 20/05/2021 18:31

That is disgusting 🤮. I have heard it all now. Sanitary products??

How on earth do we separate the genuine trans women from the fetishists ?

It really has to be a blanket no.

Artichokeleaves · 20/05/2021 18:31

That really is grim, it just has no regard for other people's boundaries.

Consent. Women's consent is a thing. I won't be compelled to be a participant in someone else's experience. This isn't something being expected of male people to do, so again - it's becoming a known downside of having been born with female biology.

All this is supposed to be to do with biological sex not being a Thing, but oddly enough it all boils down to sex based thinking and the female ones being on the service provision end.

Erikrie · 20/05/2021 18:39

That is helpful to see how stonewall got where they are now. It's incredible that an organisation that campaigned for the rights of people who were same sex attracted, now turn their back on those same people, and instead actively work against them. Even Simon Fanshawe, one of the co founders of stonewall is horrified at the direction they have taken, and at the sustained attack they have waged on women's rights and safety.

DrSbaitso · 20/05/2021 18:42

How long can Stonewall last once it's out that they no longer support gay people and think they can change their orientation?

Erikrie · 20/05/2021 18:44

I think the house of cards is about to tumble.

LangClegsInSpace · 20/05/2021 18:48

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]Regarding the Beaumont Society, please go to this MN thread and read the pdf of a 2002 article by Amy Bloom.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3815501-Conservative-Men-in-Conservative-Dresses-2002-article[/quote]
Those poor wives SadFlowers

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 20/05/2021 18:51

It's absolutely shocking, isn't it?

If you look at the image, that's the tweet for IDAHOBIT 2020 that Stonewall deleted. Defining and defending same-sex attraction is supposed to be the purpose of Stonewall!

Instead, they spend their time on social media campaigning for biological males to be permitted to play women's rugby, and goodness knows what else.

A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....
DrSbaitso · 20/05/2021 18:55

Interview with Simon Fanshawe OBE:

www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,cofounder-of-stonewall-calls-for-calm_14648.htm

"I have never seen a feminist placard that says, ‘Death to trans people’ but I have seen many placards that say, ‘Death to Terfs’ [trans-exclusionary radical feminists] or ‘Punch a Terf’. The violence coming towards lesbians is completely staggering...

"So, look, what I’m saying is that when gay people said they wanted to get married, that didn’t affect in any way the marriage that heterosexual people had because actually, the rights were then the same. One of the problems with self-identification becoming the basis for law is that it affects women. Negatively. Because it creates confusion between biology, social identity and the law. So firstly, you can’t change sex. I mean, that is really clear and intersex people are really fed up with being thrown under the bus about this...

"And the point about being female and the point about being male, is that there’s a biological reality to that. So why does that matter? Well, it matters because of the relationship that women have to men around reproduction, whether or not they actually have children or not, and what has been built on that reproductive relationship is a series of things that happened to women from men that oppress women. So, the threat of pregnancy puts women in a particular situation, consequently, the threats of abortion or the lack of access to abortion puts women in a situation and so it goes on. These are things based on the fact that women are actually female. So transwomen are not women, transwomen are transwomen and I respect them for that. When I went out to campaign for gay equality, I didn’t campaign to be heterosexual. I went out in the streets and I said, ‘I’m gay’. I am different, I may be a minority, but I want equal treatment under the law. I want trans women to have equal treatment under the law. I want them to be free from bullying and harassment and violence, but I absolutely can’t accept that they are women."

It's worth reading the whole thing though. It was hard choosing even just this much to quote.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 20/05/2021 19:02

Instead, they spend their time on social media campaigning for biological males to be permitted to play women's rugby, and goodness knows what else.

I honestly don't understand the sports lobbying: I know it's for validation and inclusion, but surely at huge risk to women. No one can believe that a male born person who's been through male puberty and has the extra lung capacity, height weight and muscle density, should be playing with women?