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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
RedDogsBeg · 19/05/2021 18:42

No mystery why the OP swerved homophobia in their special whinge on IDAHOBIT.

DrSbaitso · 19/05/2021 18:43

Do they know what they're dealing with? Dictating people's sexuality and thinking they can be guilted into liking things they don't?

They can't believe this. They can't be that dismissive of the power and nature of sexual orientation. There must be another agenda to this. They cannot believe this or think it's a fight they could win. What's the real motive?

Sn0tnose · 19/05/2021 18:50

Many years ago my friend told me her trans friend felt safer using the women’s toilets (which after all are in locked door cubicles) rather than the gents, in case they got attacked for being trans.

Seems reasonable to me.

Surprise, surprise! Many women feel safer in a single sex space in case we get attacked for being women. Seems even more reasonable to me.

PronounssheRa · 19/05/2021 18:55

Smells like Gay Conversion therapy to me

If it was happening in other countries or cultures it would be seen as corrective rape.

DdraigGoch · 19/05/2021 19:03

@Blue4YOU

I’m at a loss as to how toilets ever became such a battle ground.
It has been said that any male who demands unfettered access to female safe spaces probably needs their hard drive examining.

Read into it what you will.

Carouselfish · 19/05/2021 19:16

When trans people are so diverse, rather like women, no two are the same, it's rather strange to speak for all of them.

For the same reason saying you 'feel like' a woman, should only be met with the response Which one?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/05/2021 19:21

Toilets became the battleground because they're lower-hanging fruit than open-plan communal changing rooms and showers, hospital wards, prisons, psychiatric units, rape crisis centres, homeless hostels and medical examinations.

RedDogsBeg · 19/05/2021 19:24

@PronounssheRa

Smells like Gay Conversion therapy to me

If it was happening in other countries or cultures it would be seen as corrective rape.

You are right it is exactly that.
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/05/2021 20:04

@DrSbaitso

Do they know what they're dealing with? Dictating people's sexuality and thinking they can be guilted into liking things they don't?

They can't believe this. They can't be that dismissive of the power and nature of sexual orientation. There must be another agenda to this. They cannot believe this or think it's a fight they could win. What's the real motive?

If you see sex as something that women give to men, and you have no interest whatsoever in whether the women find sex fulfilling, I think this pressure "works" (for want of a better word) on young women. The fight is temporarily won there.

And, made no mistake, young women and girls are the main targets of all this. Not confident mature women at ease in their own skins and sexuality.

extract

A year ago the publication did a Q&A with me about my novel, and they recently discovered I was offended because they put words in my mouth and printed them up as quotes. Among other things, throughout the interview, where I said “lesbian” the word lesbian was changed to “queer.” I was rebranded. I became the mythological “if the situation was right” lesbian. The appropriated slur “queer,” has become the popular descriptor of choice for a “yes” girl or a “maybe” girl— An “I’m not going to rule anything out because I’m open-minded” girl. It doesn’t carry the sting of lesbian. The stigma of lesbian. The boundaries of lesbian. Lesbian is a solid “No.” ”Not even if…” And that unwillingness to bend is the very reason lesbians are targeted with insidious psychological warfare.

(Continues)

The psychological warfare has a new face, a new posse trying to break down our boundaries. I’ve seen this strategy used in a lot in publications lately. I’ve done a lot of digging and I’ve discovered that most lesbian publications have something unsettling in common—They’re being run by non-lesbians. They only have one or two token lesbians writing on their staff. Young lesbians currently get their sex advice under the guise that it’s coming from lesbians. Let that sink in: Lesbians are the token… In lesbian publications.

Continues: thevelvetchronicle.com/why-didnt-you-say-something-sooner-youre-asking-the-wrong-question/

Fernlake · 19/05/2021 20:46

@RedDogsBeg

No mystery why the OP swerved homophobia in their special whinge on IDAHOBIT.
It always makes me think of a 1950s landlady. With rooms to let.

No smoking, no drinking, no members of the opposite sex in your room after 6 pm. You can only use the bath between 7am and 815am, and 7pm and 7.45pm. Do not use all the hot water. Double flush please. Breakfast is at 8:30am sharp.

I Hobit (Mrs).

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 19/05/2021 21:32

I’m thinking @Biber didn’t get the wholesale agreement and approbation they were looking for.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/05/2021 21:40

Fern Grin Happy Hobbit Day

NiceGerbil · 19/05/2021 21:42

Back to toilets!

Putting aside the fact that having unisex single occupant toilets instead of the usual cubicles in a room style is not going to happen everywhere because of space and expense. And that women have concerns about being pushed in, spycams, what happens if there's a medical emergency, etc etc

Men won't want this either. They are not used to queueing. And the queues will be longer for everyone.

Are they going to wait for a pee? I'd hazard that plenty won't and peeing outside all around the place will become much more common.

DrSbaitso · 19/05/2021 21:43

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

I’m thinking *@Biber* didn’t get the wholesale agreement and approbation they were looking for.
I don't think they were expecting that; they chose to lecture us for a reason. But they probably weren't expecting to get so many soundly reasoned really quite indisputable responses (because, well, sex is real and matters and so is sexual orientation). They weren't expecting us to be able to substantiate what we were saying, which is madness when you think about what we are being told to believe and accept.

Which is why we've got a ton of very strong and sound reasons for what we're saying, and all they've got is "You're homophobic! You're racist! You spread Covid!"

The hypocrisy of them invoking homophobia...

AnotherKrampus · 19/05/2021 22:33

Yooohooo OP. Today is 'Fling your tits over yer shoulder day'!

Bassetlover · 19/05/2021 22:49

Why do you think men won't go to the effort of pretending to be trans? Some men train as teachers and join the priesthood to get access to children. There's no lengths a predator won't go to. Also in countries where unisex toilets exist secret cameras and assaults on women are rife.

Bassetlover · 19/05/2021 22:55

Women are not human shields for trans people. You don't mind using unisex toilets, that's nice for you but you don't speak for all women.

WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 19/05/2021 23:22

SirVixofVixHall

I take the “transwomen can’t use the gents, due to dangerous and violent other males.” thing with a pinch of salt anyway, as plenty of fully made up and ambiguously dressed males from my teenage years used the gents.
If they were fine in the gents over thirty years ago then I tend to think they would be fine now.

Sadly this is not the case. My DS2 (14) has long hair and a rather 'feminine' face. (He also has the beginnings of a beard and moustache, but you can't see that when he's wearing his face mask.)
He has been told to "fuck off back to the ladies" or called a "transgender bitch" more than once. The result if which is that he no longer uses public toilets unless he is bursting.

Trans women wanting to use women's spaces aren't just harming women. :(

NiceGerbil · 20/05/2021 00:51

So instead of tackling male violence.

The idea is to take one group of men at risk of violence and say they can go with the women. And not any of the other men who are at risk from other men.

While simultaneously opening the women's stuff up to any and all men.

You seem to be suggesting that your son use the ladies? Or not? It's not clear tbh.

NiceGerbil · 20/05/2021 00:53

'Trans women wanting to use women's spaces aren't just harming women.'

You are suggesting that the men who behave like that to your son, will stop if other males who are trans go to the ladies?

Is that right? Or have I misunderstood?

GreyhoundG1rl · 20/05/2021 00:54

I can't grasp what that post meant either.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/05/2021 01:00

You are suggesting that the men who behave like that to your son, will stop if other males who are trans go to the ladies?

I think she means that the expectation is for feminine looking young men to identify as trans, and some males expect them to use the women's facilities. She said "trans women who use women's spaces are harming people" not the ones who use the men's.

NiceGerbil · 20/05/2021 01:08

But loads of men have always been awful/ violent to those they see as 'not real men'.

I have no idea how women saying yep males with a trans ID are welcome would help that posters son?

In fact this then is making it worse. Any and all men who some men don't think are 'real men' are being told to use the womens?

So it's men and non men.

So the ladies should be for all male people who are not seen as 'real men' now? By other men? Irrespective of trans ID?

Well I mean the whole men and non men language was always leading that way...

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 20/05/2021 01:19

Phyllis means that the men's toilets have become less welcoming of boys with long hair, because it's become the new expectation that transwomen should use women's facilities.

This whole mess has reified (if I'm using the word correctly) the concept that the men's toilets are for extremely masculine men only, and that everyone else else has to go in the women's.

When men tell women and each other that transwomen must use the women's, it seems they're not that good at defining what a transwoman is.

GreyhoundG1rl · 20/05/2021 01:22

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Phyllis means that the men's toilets have become less welcoming of boys with long hair, because it's become the new expectation that transwomen should use women's facilities.

This whole mess has reified (if I'm using the word correctly) the concept that the men's toilets are for extremely masculine men only, and that everyone else else has to go in the women's.

When men tell women and each other that transwomen must use the women's, it seems they're not that good at defining what a transwoman is.

Ah, I get it now. What a fucking mess.
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