Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
TheVampiresWife · 19/05/2021 14:41

@PigeonPants and don't forget Alex Drummond. A bit of eyeliner and you're a woman - you don't even need surgery or hormones. A bit of kohl is what makes you female, whodathunkit.

A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....
TheVampiresWife · 19/05/2021 14:43

Alex and co can live how they see fit - what they can't do is tell lesbians they're vagina fetishists or 'redefine what it is to be a woman' (as Drummond has said in an interview).

DrSbaitso · 19/05/2021 14:56

I suppose in a way, telling half the species - and not even the half that includes you - that you are going to redefine who and what they are, does take some pretty huge, well, balls.

Erikrie · 19/05/2021 15:39

and don't forget Alex Drummond. A bit of eyeliner and you're a woman - you don't even need surgery or hormones. A bit of kohl is what makes you female, whodathunkit.

Well Drummond says they are expanding the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman. Seeing as Drummond is a biological male though, the reality is that they are expanding the bandwidth of man.

DrSbaitso · 19/05/2021 15:43

@Erikrie

and don't forget Alex Drummond. A bit of eyeliner and you're a woman - you don't even need surgery or hormones. A bit of kohl is what makes you female, whodathunkit.

Well Drummond says they are expanding the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman. Seeing as Drummond is a biological male though, the reality is that they are expanding the bandwidth of man.

Yes, what a good point. Why is it women Drummond wishes to redefine and not men?
GlassBoxSpectacular · 19/05/2021 15:49

Well Drummond says they are expanding the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman.

If societal norms were genuinely challenged, to the extent that a male-bodied person was able to express themselves more fully without fear of mockery or violence, there’d be no need whatsoever for male-bodied persons to presume to redefine the parameters of womanhood.

Yet trans women seem very reluctant to push for a redefinition of the masculine that allows room for their particular form of self-expression.

Why is that? It couldn’t possibly be that patriarchal tropes posit that women are more inclined to accede to threats and fear than men, could it? 🤔

Rejoiningperson · 19/05/2021 16:00

Agreed @GlassBoxSpectacular

I see it as men have their ‘house’ (biological, hips, whatever) and I have a woman ‘house’.

I am perfectly accepting that a man in his house redecorates, puts on an extension, or knocks down his extension, alters the blue print.

I like that everyone has different houses that the build and alter throughout life. It is good to express yourself in whatever way you like.

However no-one comes into my house and alters it for me.

Erikrie · 19/05/2021 16:15

However no-one comes into my house and alters it for me.

Grin
AlfonsoTheTerrible · 19/05/2021 16:16

I find Alex Drummond extremely creepy.

HeadIsFucked · 19/05/2021 16:54

Yes, what a good point. Why is it women Drummond wishes to redefine and not men?

Quite.

IIRC Alex is, unsurprisingly, not only a woman, but also a lesbian Hmm

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/05/2021 17:43

Interesting article from 2017.

huffpost

extract

Gay men’s spaces still thrive, but the homophobic shift has begun to target them as well. In June, two Boston Pride Parades were threatened with a boycott after gay men called out the homophobic comments of LGBT journalist, Juno Dawson who said—“I think there are a lot of gay men out there who are gay men as a consolation prize because they couldn’t be women.” Gay men can call out homophobia and they did, but lesbians don’t have that liberty.

“A binary label like ‘gay’ or ‘lesbian’ starts to feel somewhat stale and stodgy...is it closed-minded—or worse, harmful and exclusionary—if you identify with a label that implies you’re only attracted to one?”—BuzzFeed

A whole generation is being taught that being gay or lesbian is potentially “closed-minded” and “harmful.” But has anyone stopped to think about the harm this homophobic rhetoric is doing to young gay and lesbian people?

“The rate of suicide attempts is 4 times greater for LGB youth...”—The Trevor Project

When you first discover that mainstream feminist media LGBTQ platforms are teaching the next generation that homosexuality is no more than a whimsical “preference” that can be “unlearned”, it kinda feels like you’ve stepped into an Orwellian novel.

“..if you were to say that you’re only attracted to people with vaginas or people with penises, it really feels like you’re reducing people just to their genitals... Gay ‘conversion therapy’ has been proven not to work. But you can unlearn your own prejudices; it just takes time and conscious effort.”—Everyday Feminism

When did same-sex “preferences” become a “prejudice” that can be fixed?

“If you met someone who was extremely attractive, had a great personality, but didn’t have the genitals that you wanted, you might be surprised to find that it isn’t adealbreaker.”—Everyday Feminism

(Said every parent in denial ever)

“Some lesbians...are still all too eagerto write off [people] because of “genital preferences,” which means they have incredibly reductive ideas...”—BuzzFeed

DrSbaitso · 19/05/2021 17:55

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Interesting article from 2017.

huffpost

extract

Gay men’s spaces still thrive, but the homophobic shift has begun to target them as well. In June, two Boston Pride Parades were threatened with a boycott after gay men called out the homophobic comments of LGBT journalist, Juno Dawson who said—“I think there are a lot of gay men out there who are gay men as a consolation prize because they couldn’t be women.” Gay men can call out homophobia and they did, but lesbians don’t have that liberty.

“A binary label like ‘gay’ or ‘lesbian’ starts to feel somewhat stale and stodgy...is it closed-minded—or worse, harmful and exclusionary—if you identify with a label that implies you’re only attracted to one?”—BuzzFeed

A whole generation is being taught that being gay or lesbian is potentially “closed-minded” and “harmful.” But has anyone stopped to think about the harm this homophobic rhetoric is doing to young gay and lesbian people?

“The rate of suicide attempts is 4 times greater for LGB youth...”—The Trevor Project

When you first discover that mainstream feminist media LGBTQ platforms are teaching the next generation that homosexuality is no more than a whimsical “preference” that can be “unlearned”, it kinda feels like you’ve stepped into an Orwellian novel.

“..if you were to say that you’re only attracted to people with vaginas or people with penises, it really feels like you’re reducing people just to their genitals... Gay ‘conversion therapy’ has been proven not to work. But you can unlearn your own prejudices; it just takes time and conscious effort.”—Everyday Feminism

When did same-sex “preferences” become a “prejudice” that can be fixed?

“If you met someone who was extremely attractive, had a great personality, but didn’t have the genitals that you wanted, you might be surprised to find that it isn’t adealbreaker.”—Everyday Feminism

(Said every parent in denial ever)

“Some lesbians...are still all too eagerto write off [people] because of “genital preferences,” which means they have incredibly reductive ideas...”—BuzzFeed

I don't believe what I'm reading. We have actually gone back to "gay people can change"??
OnlyheretovoteonAIBU · 19/05/2021 18:02

The fact that @biber just posted their patronising drivel and hasn’t come back demonstrates that they feel entitled to lecture women but won’t engage in meaningful debate or acknowledge their concerns which is the whole problem with the TRA movement. The fact that trans rights are considered important and those of women are not.

Erikrie · 19/05/2021 18:06

The fact that trans rights are considered important and those of women are not.

Unfortunately for them, women don't agree and we will not be giving up our rights. Ever.

TheVampiresWife · 19/05/2021 18:08

*I see it as men have their ‘house’ (biological, hips, whatever) and I have a woman ‘house’.

I am perfectly accepting that a man in his house redecorates, puts on an extension, or knocks down his extension, alters the blue print.

I like that everyone has different houses that the build and alter throughout life. It is good to express yourself in whatever way you like.

However no-one comes into my house and alters it for me*

Fantastic post!

KindnessCrusader · 19/05/2021 18:09

Thanks for mansplaining Confused

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/05/2021 18:11

DrSbaitso

I don't believe what I'm reading. We have actually gone back to "gay people can change"??

Oh yes. In fact, if you look at the very top image in this page of awful screenshots, it advocates that men should "go to therapy" to widen their sexuality.

Hmm, what's that called?

oursuperstories.com/wall-of-coercion/

TheVampiresWife · 19/05/2021 18:12

I don't believe what I'm reading. We have actually gone back to "gay people can change"??

It's like I said upthread - gay people are once again being harassed, abused, subjected to threats and violence and being ostracised because of who they're attracted to. It's a massive, depressing and very scary backward step and adds up to a loss of the hard-won acceptance and equality gay people fought for for literally centuries.

rainpurplerain · 19/05/2021 18:16

"No one uses them unless the really have to." Not true at all, all types of people have bowel issues, urge incontinence, diseases where they need to use public toilets.

I can't believe women who have gone through childbirth injuries or domestic abuse would be expected to share their public toilets with someone from the opposite sex.

But for my protection as a member of the female sex and a hope that I can be safe, have dignity and privacy I very much need public toilets to be single sex toilets.

TheVampiresWife · 19/05/2021 18:25

'Homophobia is understandable and there are so many reasons to hate gay people'

A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....
GreyhoundG1rl · 19/05/2021 18:25

Of course nobody uses toilets unless they really have to...

What am I missing here? Confused

AfternoonToffee · 19/05/2021 18:30

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]DrSbaitso

I don't believe what I'm reading. We have actually gone back to "gay people can change"??

Oh yes. In fact, if you look at the very top image in this page of awful screenshots, it advocates that men should "go to therapy" to widen their sexuality.

Hmm, what's that called?

oursuperstories.com/wall-of-coercion/[/quote]
I only looked at a few of those screenshots, they are absolutely dreadful.

"If your identity as a gay man is centered around not liking vagina... you are a transphobe."

Do they ever actually read what they write? Surely the very definition of gay is not liking vagina. It feels like gay rights have been rolled back 100 years.

RedDogsBeg · 19/05/2021 18:32

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]DrSbaitso

I don't believe what I'm reading. We have actually gone back to "gay people can change"??

Oh yes. In fact, if you look at the very top image in this page of awful screenshots, it advocates that men should "go to therapy" to widen their sexuality.

Hmm, what's that called?

oursuperstories.com/wall-of-coercion/[/quote]
Smells like Gay Conversion therapy to me.

GreyhoundG1rl · 19/05/2021 18:34

If your identity as a gay man is centered around not liking vagina... you are a transphobe."
Surely this can't even make sense to them? Hmm
How can not liking women (actual women, with vaginas) be transphobic? 🤯

AfternoonToffee · 19/05/2021 18:38

@GreyhoundG1rl

If your identity as a gay man is centered around not liking vagina... you are a transphobe." Surely this can't even make sense to them? Hmm How can not liking women (actual women, with vaginas) be transphobic? 🤯
We're irrelevant, well our vaginas are at least. It is only gentleman vaginas that matter. The special kind like the lady penis.