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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
DialSquare · 19/05/2021 13:28

TIt become more prounced at puberty but is always there.

Sorry but had to snigger at this typo Curious!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 13:28

Grin Yeah! I could have proofed that better!

DialSquare · 19/05/2021 13:30

It added something extra to your brilliant post!

HannaHat · 19/05/2021 13:32

You can tell a man’s gait from 50 yards away.

Imasoulman · 19/05/2021 13:32

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I'm not being facetious and i wasn't suggesting the pelvis could be surgically altered.

I am honestly just thinking and maybe I have it wrong, but the Q angle depends in part on the pelvic width, is that correct ?

If so as the female pelvis alters in width at different stages would the Q angle not change with it ?

midgedude · 19/05/2021 13:37

It will be possible with enough medicalisation , surgery and hormones to fool most people most of the time

But we don't throw every safeguard we have out of the window if some people have enough money to bypass it

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 13:40

Read the link @Imasoulman. I chose the least scientific one I could find!

But to answer your repeated question again - no! It is a fixed anatomic point. Dodgy knees and hips, injuries may temporarily modify it, but that is so painful everyone gets treatment. My own pelvic girdle has movement in the sacroiliac joints, they are fused joints that aren't supposed to move (although in women it is affected by the hormone relaxin during pregnancy to aid childbirth). Nonetheless my gait is feminine, just a bit stilted. You wouldn't misatke me for a man!

It is a permanent, unchanging, sex based skeletal difference.

Fernlake · 19/05/2021 13:40

Listen carefully, this used to be my job. The Q angle is real and immutable. You cannot have your pelvic girdle restructured. Hip replacements don't touch it. It is a sex specific skeletal difference. It is what it is and no amount of wishful thinking and walk training can mask it.

Is this why skeletal remains can be sexed by the pelvic bone?

Which obviously, if we are talking about remains, is not generally age specific.

Fernlake · 19/05/2021 13:44

You have to remember Imasoulman that women's bodies are designed to carry babies, sometimes more than one, and sometimes quite a few at the same time. Also birth them and feed them to keep them alive.

Men's aren't.

Women's bodies are designed to accommodate all those mechanics. It can't be replicated.

SirVixofVixHall · 19/05/2021 13:45

I take the “transwomen can’t use the gents, due to dangerous and violent other males.” thing with a pinch of salt anyway, as plenty of fully made up and ambiguously dressed males from my teenage years used the gents.
If they were fine in the gents over thirty years ago then I tend to think they would be fine now.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 13:48

but the Q angle depends in part on the pelvic width, is that correct ? Yes

If so as the female pelvis alters in width at different stages would the Q angle not change with it ? Bodies are in 3D. On a flat piece of paper you might be correct. But width and depth etc, maintain the angle once bones start fusing. Once the insertion point of muscles become stable, once hyaline cartilege starts to stabilise, even before the epiphyseal plate is complete the shape and conjunction of the pelvic girdle is different in male and female children.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 13:49

@Fernlake

Listen carefully, this used to be my job. The Q angle is real and immutable. You cannot have your pelvic girdle restructured. Hip replacements don't touch it. It is a sex specific skeletal difference. It is what it is and no amount of wishful thinking and walk training can mask it.

Is this why skeletal remains can be sexed by the pelvic bone?

Which obviously, if we are talking about remains, is not generally age specific.

Yes @Fernlake if the pelvic bones remain there is very rarely an issue with sexing a skeleton. The browbone is another area, but not as definitive.
DrSbaitso · 19/05/2021 13:51

@SirVixofVixHall

I take the “transwomen can’t use the gents, due to dangerous and violent other males.” thing with a pinch of salt anyway, as plenty of fully made up and ambiguously dressed males from my teenage years used the gents. If they were fine in the gents over thirty years ago then I tend to think they would be fine now.
I'm not convinced they were fine 30 years ago, but even so...if Stonewall etc get their way, men wouldn't even need to pretend they're trying to look like women to get in there. They could look, dress and act like Steve Backshall, even be called Steve Backshall, and just say they're women and anyone who says "hang on" is a hateful bigot on a par with homophobes and racists.

I don't think we have anything to fear from genuine trans women who have transitioned and legally changed gender. But without such safeguards, this would make a massive cultural, and legal, difference that matters.

GreyhoundG1rl · 19/05/2021 13:55

SirVix was talking about effeminately dressed men in the Gents.

AfternoonToffee · 19/05/2021 13:56

@WoolOfBat

I think your personal views are important *@Biber*. I would suggest posting on a few other forums as well to get a wider audience. There are many boring women here.

I would recommend kiwi farms and 4chan. You will reach more men but still some women. The people there are always up for discussion, especially if your first post is provocative or slightly aggressive. Moderation is quite light as well so you will be able to have a very open and frank discussion.

I thought we were 4chan

I can't keep up. Grin

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 19/05/2021 13:56

@TheVampiresWife - if it hasn't already been mentioned, your DD could seek out the LGB Alliance, as they are committed to upholding the rights and needs of the LGB community, and refuse to bow to the T pressure.

I have to say as well, that the thing that took me over the mountain was the "cotton ceiling" - the forcing of lesbians to accept tw into their dating pool, and to accept "ladydick" as being part of this. Just NO. One of my best friends is a lesbian and it revolted me that she might be put in this position of what, effectively, would be sexual assault by a male penis-haver. No more "be nice!" after that, I can assure you!

WoolOfBat · 19/05/2021 13:59

AfternoonToffee I don’t think we are 4chan, I am confused now. I am just a boring woman.

My impression is that the users of 4chan would have a slightly more robust response to being educated which I think could be interesting for the OP.

Grin
Imasoulman · 19/05/2021 14:04

@Fernlake

You have to remember Imasoulman that women's bodies are designed to carry babies, sometimes more than one, and sometimes quite a few at the same time. Also birth them and feed them to keep them alive.

Men's aren't.

Women's bodies are designed to accommodate all those mechanics. It can't be replicated.

I understand that of course, I wasn't suggesting a body could be so drastically altered.

It was just a previous comment about Q angles and their effect on the female gait.
It seemed to me that would alter as the width of a female pelvis alters at different stages of life.

I have had it explained by Curious who sounds very knowledgeable and I bow down to that knowledge

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/05/2021 14:04

My impression is that the users of 4chan would have a slightly more robust response to being educated which I think could be interesting for the OP.

This is what happened when Tumblr took them on (I do not condone their behaviour, obvs)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SvjwXhCNZcU

TheVampiresWife · 19/05/2021 14:06

if Stonewall etc get their way, men wouldn't even need to pretend they're trying to look like women to get in there. They could look, dress and act like Steve Backshall, even be called Steve Backshall, and just say they're women and anyone who says "hang on" is a hateful bigot on a par with homophobes and racists

Or look, dress and act like Danielle Muscato

A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....
TheVampiresWife · 19/05/2021 14:07

Also, they'd have to be masters of hypocrisy to put anyone on a par with homophobes, given how homophobic so much of their rhetoric is.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/05/2021 14:10

Also, they'd have to be masters of hypocrisy to put anyone on a par with homophobes, given how homophobic so much of their rhetoric is.

Deny attack, reverse victim and offender.

TheVampiresWife · 19/05/2021 14:24

[quote ThumbWitchesAbroad]@TheVampiresWife - if it hasn't already been mentioned, your DD could seek out the LGB Alliance, as they are committed to upholding the rights and needs of the LGB community, and refuse to bow to the T pressure.

I have to say as well, that the thing that took me over the mountain was the "cotton ceiling" - the forcing of lesbians to accept tw into their dating pool, and to accept "ladydick" as being part of this. Just NO. One of my best friends is a lesbian and it revolted me that she might be put in this position of what, effectively, would be sexual assault by a male penis-haver. No more "be nice!" after that, I can assure you![/quote]
I'm bisexual myself and have campaigned for LGBT rights/gone on rallies and marches etc. Most trans people I know have actually distanced themselves from the whole TRA nonsense and have found their actions have made their lives more difficult, not less. I firmly believe you should be able to live your life free from prejudice or harm as long as in doing so you are not causing harm to other groups.

Sexual coercion, and bullying and ostracising individuals on account of their sexuality, goes against everything I believe in. When this shit happens to your own daughter it's a massive wake up call. I'm so disappointed that LGB rights seems to have regressed and once again we're fighting to be allowed to have same sex relationships free from censure and fear of reprisal. It's nuts.

WoolOfBat · 19/05/2021 14:27

Ereshkigalangcleg thank you for posting the video.

I do think it is important to not be critical of 4chan, it might hurt their feelings. And then they may possibly lash out, but it wouldn’t really be their fault. And they wouldn’t mean anything bad. It is very much like when transwomen tell us on Twitter to choke on their ladyd*cks and die. They are also misunderstood and don’t really mean it.

I think there could be some robust talking between the parties, maybe some connecting to their suppressed feelings and in general an exchange of views.

And the boring women here could go back to petitions and talking to other women about how to protect women and girls.

PigeonPants · 19/05/2021 14:32

@TheVampiresWife

if Stonewall etc get their way, men wouldn't even need to pretend they're trying to look like women to get in there. They could look, dress and act like Steve Backshall, even be called Steve Backshall, and just say they're women and anyone who says "hang on" is a hateful bigot on a par with homophobes and racists

Or look, dress and act like Danielle Muscato

Or like this individual - most famous for quitting the SNP because they outrageously censured him from calling his constituents "cunts" and "TERFs" - who intervened in the Maya Forstater case, complaining she called them "he" online.

This is a "they", ladies - thank you very much and please stay in line and keep close track so you don't fall afoul of state-sanctioned lies!

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