A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

[Biber]

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

Sometimes the simple truth - a man's Q angle, pelvic girdle just cannot move like a woman's - or vice versa - because the biomechanics just won't allow it. A man in motion looks like a man no matter how he is dressed, how he identifies, even if he is the world's best drag queen. Just as women cannot walk like a man, same reason - biomechnics!

Truth is very much a casualty of this movement.

@JackieTheFart

Over 700 posts and nothing you want to engage with yet *@Biber*?

I doubt we'll see OP again but I have a feeling we'll see some of the responses here on Twitter.

@ThewaterlilliesofGiverny

Many years ago my friend told me her trans friend felt safer using the women’s toilets (which after all are in locked door cubicles) rather than the gents, in case they got attacked for being trans.

Seems reasonable to me.

But if anyone who feels afraid in the gents uses the ladies then there will be even less provision for women and little privacy. People need to make the gents less scary, not use women as a shield or use up the resources assigned to women. I would be very happy to support well designed mixed sex loos as long as single sex provision is also supplied. What is currently happening is that men have men's loos and women's loos become mixed sex. How is that fair or reasonable?

It really isn't about trans people, it's about the rights, opportunities and safety of women being compromised. I want to be an ally. There are trans people in my life whom I love. I want them to feel safe and respected. I don't believe that we can't solve this. Taking women's provision over is going to cause too much ill feeling and problems for women. Let's find a better way.

People need to make the gents less scary, not use women as a shield or use up the resources assigned to women

Men need to make the gents less scary.
But being as they aren’t the one’s who’s rights are trampled on all the time, it is up for women to bend over and take it.

Taking women's provision over is going to cause too much ill feeling and problems for women. Let's find a better way.

This is the thing isn’t it. Most decent people, when problem solving, simply would realise: ‘hang on a minute, these are women’s rights/spaces, we can’t just bulldoze our way into them.’

It’s more evidence, like the crime statistics, that men who think they are women still behave like men. Speaking in terms of the class of men there, not individuals specifically.

I doubt we'll see OP again but I have a feeling we'll see some of the responses here on Twitter.

Excellent, maybe they will be able to come and answer this question:

What did the trans activist community actively do on International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia to eliminate the abuse lesbians receive, including rape threats and death threats, for clearly stating their boundaries in not accepting male sex partners?

@JackieTheFart

Over 700 posts and nothing you want to engage with yet *@Biber*?

Given that the OP was obediently posting someone else's opinion in their OP, they possibly haven't got a sufficiently well-formed viewpoint to present.

Or perhaps they're reading all of the posts and considering the alternative perspectives raised.

Or perhaps they've headed over to Datalounge to tell them that they're all homophobic, transphobic, biphobic bigots.

Or perhaps they've name-changed yet again and daren't show their face again.

I know exactly which of the above possibilities I suspect to be most likely.

It’s more evidence, like the crime statistics, that men who think they are women still behave like men.

I think it's recently been mention in the HoC that between 2015 and 2019 there has been an 84% increase in women convicted of sexual offences involving children. How are we supposed to develop strategies for safety guarding or tackling this sort of crime if the data used to do this is so thoroughly corrupted.

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]**@Boredoutmymind* LMAO. Women would not be abled to identify transmen who look exactly like CIS males. Some women think teenage bio females with short hair are males. Even worse butch lesbians have been harassed for using women's toilets*

Laugh all you like. But think about what you wrote.

Think about the culture of fear that must exist for women to try to protect themselves against anyone who looks even vaguely male.

I don't know why that's funny. It's fucking terrifying.

And yes, mistakes will happen whilst women are in the invidiuous position of having to safeguard themselves againt male incursions.

But lay the blame for that where it truly lies - with the sex that is most violent and intrusive - men![/quote]
Yes, it's such an own goal. Hey women! You're frightened of men, well what about women who might look like men, ha ha, gotcha!

No. It's an own goal. And they never see it.

Soemmetimes the simple truth - a man's Q angle, pelvic girdle just cannot move like a woman's - or vice versa - because the biomechanics just won't allow it. A man in motion looks like a man no matter how he is dressed, how he identifies, even if he is the world's best drag queen. Just as women cannot walk like a man, same reason - biomechnics!

Yes, I was thinking about this the other day.

I have yet to see a male even remotely resembling a female whilst walking. Ive often seen an overemphasised hip wiggle or a 'sassy' bust forward, alternate shoulder kind of thing.

It just looks like a man trying to walk like a woman. Well, trying to walk like how he sees women.

I must admit, I didn't know it was literally impossible though.

@FOJN

It’s more evidence, like the crime statistics, that men who think they are women still behave like men.

I think it's recently been mention in the HoC that between 2015 and 2019 there has been an 84% increase in women convicted of sexual offences involving children. How are we supposed to develop strategies for safety guarding or tackling this sort of crime if the data used to do this is so thoroughly corrupted.

Tonia Antoniazzi MP (Labour) raised it in the House of Commons. It was good to see a member of Parliament addressing one of the clear clashes of rights here. This is what she said:

‘To find effective solutions we must fully understand the problem, and accurate data is key in tackling the causes of crime, protecting the public, providing justice to victims, and rehabilitating offenders. Data must be accurately sex-disaggregated in order to fully understand the impact of all crimes on women and girls. In order to combat sexism, we need to count sex, and in order to combat discrimination against other groups, there is a need to record separate and additional data. The offending patterns of men and of women show the highest differential of all, so we need to monitor the sex of victims and of perpetrators of all crimes. For example, the proportion of women among those prosecuted in 2019 was 2 per cent for sexual offences, 8 per cent for robbery, and 7 per cent for possession of a weapon.

‘We all want to live in a society that is respectful and tolerant and strives for equality. Gender reassignment is rightly a protected characteristic and we must respect the privacy of transgender people, but in order to protect everyone when it comes to official records of offences, particularly against women and girls, we need accurate records of the biological sex of the victims and the perpetrators of crime, in addition to data on the gender identity of victims and perpetrators. Why then are police forces recording the self-identified gender of victims of suspected offenders and not their biological sex?

‘I understand that at least 16 regional police forces now record suspects’ sex on the basis of gender identity, following the advice of the National Police Chiefs’ Council. Data based only on self-identified gender does not give accurate data on which to build a violence against women and girls strategy, nor to effectively plan services that support all victims and target all perpetrators whatever their sex or however they identify.

‘If police records are not robust and correctly disaggregated by sex, we end up with unreliable and potentially misleading data in reporting. For example, the BBC asked 45 regional police forces in the UK for data on reported cases of female perpetrators’ child sex abuse from 2015 to 2019. The data received indicated that there was an increase of 84 per cent. Data corruption means that we cannot tell whether this large increase is due to an increase in female offenders or those identifying as women, and that detail matters.

‘Women make up 3 per cent of the arrests for all sexual offences. The number of women convicted for these crimes is so low that the mis-recording of the sex of the perpetrator skews the data very quickly. Where offence categories are very rarely committed by women, the addition of just one or two people can have a significant impact on data. For example, a biological man convicted of attempted murder and other offences at Birmingham Crown court in 2017 was recorded as female, thus falsely elevating the number of females convicted of attempted murder that year in England and Wales by around 20 per cent. We need to know what action the Government will take to ensure correct police record keeping and prevent the potential corruption of data on crimes and their impact on women and girls.’

I think your personal views are important @Biber. I would suggest posting on a few other forums as well to get a wider audience. There are many boring women here.

I would recommend kiwi farms and 4chan. You will reach more men but still some women. The people there are always up for discussion, especially if your first post is provocative or slightly aggressive. Moderation is quite light as well so you will be able to have a very open and frank discussion.

Boring women

😂

The OP hasn’t tried having a discussion.

@WoolOfBat

I think your personal views are important *@Biber*. I would suggest posting on a few other forums as well to get a wider audience. There are many boring women here.

I would recommend kiwi farms and 4chan. You will reach more men but still some women. The people there are always up for discussion, especially if your first post is provocative or slightly aggressive. Moderation is quite light as well so you will be able to have a very open and frank discussion.

By 'wider audience' do you mean 'people who agree with you'?

Also, megalols at 'boring women' and 4chan

HecatesCatsInFancyHats
Thanks for supplying the details.

WoolOfBat
Kiwi farms, 4chan, open and frank discussion.

Your post has made me laugh. TRA's hassle us here because they'd get their arses handed to them elsewhere in a manner that was anything other than polite but robust engagement.

TheVampiresWife

WoolofBat's suggestion is only slightly tongue in cheek. I think they are keen to for sunlight to be spread far and wide!

Hellofabore - you are right...tongue in cheek aside, I am all for OP engaging with those sites about this, and spreading the word. I think there would be a robust discussion, especially if allies visible on social media turned up to support the OP. And to lecture educate the people on those sites.

Go for it OP! Why only here? You seem to have a very urgent personal message to spread.

Ah thank God for that WoolOfBat.

Good idea.

By 'wider audience' do you mean 'people who agree with you'?

Well it's probably helpful for those who are concerned that their beliefs aren't being validated in the way that they had initially hoped for.

Ah, soz. Currently wanged on codeine thanks to a dodgy foot and high as a kite not really capable of detecting tongue-in-cheekness!

TRA's hassle us here because they'd get their arses handed to them elsewhere in a manner that was anything other than polite but robust engagement.

As exemplified by the Datalounge thread linked here, which itself acknowledges that invasion of male spaces is not an issue as a) "it would not end well" and b) patriarchal privilege makes telling women to shut the fuck up and accede an automatic action.

@Fernlake

Soemmetimes the simple truth - a man's Q angle, pelvic girdle just cannot move like a woman's - or vice versa - because the biomechanics just won't allow it. A man in motion looks like a man no matter how he is dressed, how he identifies, even if he is the world's best drag queen. Just as women cannot walk like a man, same reason - biomechnics!

Yes, I was thinking about this the other day.

I have yet to see a male even remotely resembling a female whilst walking. Ive often seen an overemphasised hip wiggle or a 'sassy' bust forward, alternate shoulder kind of thing.

It just looks like a man trying to walk like a woman. Well, trying to walk like how he sees women.

I must admit, I didn't know it was literally impossible though.

I'm not a doctor but would the female Q angle not change as the pelvis changes? So a different angle pre 20, 20-40 ish before returning to more or less the same as a male?

Maybe only men under 20 and over 40 can walk the walk?

I'm not a doctor but would the female Q angle not change as the pelvis changes? So a different angle pre 20, 20-40 ish before returning to more or less the same as a male? It's an angle ffs! It remains the same as the bones develop. There are diagrams upthread!

Maybe only men under 20 and over 40 can walk the walk? Once out of nappies, they mask both, and able to walk in balance, properly, even kids have male and female gaits! TIt become more prounced at puberty but is always there.

Listen carefully, this used to be my job. The Q angle is real and immutable. You cannot have your pelvic girdle restructured. Hip replacements don't touch it. It is a sex specific skeletal difference. It is what it is and no amount of wishful thinking and walk training can mask it.

I know, having been to walk training with both male and female trans people (yes, it's a thing). Both can sort of pull of a macho or feminine swagger, but it looks like a catwalk exaggeration. They both stick to the basics and just walk!

You don't need to be trained to see it and recognise it either. Look at a crowd of peole walking along a street, train station is goood. No matter how crowded it is you can tell men from women at a glance when they are in motion. Coming, going, from the waist down... you can tell!

vivadifferences.com/male-vs-female-pelvis/

here. If you can't bring yourself to believe a woman...

The best is when men try to walk like a woman when wearing high heels, they might as well hang a big flashing neon sign round their neck.