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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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lifeturnsonadime · 19/05/2021 09:22

PronounsSheRa

Shock

How they can claim that there is no conflict between the trans rights that they advocate and gay and lesbian rights is beyond me.

I can't get my head round it, how has trans rights become such a prominent issue world wide ? I mean it's not restricted to here is it? Even NZ with Jacinda Arderne at the helm has capitulated and will be putting forward a transwoman athlete in the olympic games. Radio NZ (state controlled) call this transwoman a 'trailblazer'. Others have different words for her! France are now allowing transwomen in women's Rugby despite the inherent risk to females. In the US transgirls are taking sports scholarships which have massive financial value at the expense of girls. It's just awful and that's only talking about the impact on sport. Funny you never hear of transboys or transmen becoming Olympians or gaining scholarships?

lifeturnsonadime · 19/05/2021 09:23

TheVampiresWife what has happened to your daughter is abhorrent. Stonewall should hang its head in shame for facilitating such abuse.

Helleofabore · 19/05/2021 09:33

Stonewall have an interesting take on this. For them a trans person's right to privacy is more important than another person's right to informed consent

Maybe @Biber can let us know about this as well.

PronounssheRa post at 9.11 has a screen grab that kind of needs explanation in this time where there is still a culture of rape and sexual coercion.

Or.... any of the other posters who supported the OP? I would like to know if you support this as well.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/05/2021 09:35

TheVampiresWife

This might be of interest to you and your daughter. It's a report into sexual coercion of lesbians by a lesbian rights activist. She's not alone.

Get the L Out new research LESBIANS AT GROUND ZERO revealed that lesbians are routinely being coerced into sexual relations with transwomen. The report includes findings of a survey which showslesbians are under huge pressure within GBT communities to accept without question that “transwoman are women.”Lesbians who responded to the survey reported a wide variety of sexual violence by transwomen, including sexual harassment, sexual assault and rape.

Get the L Out calls on mainstream GBT organisations to take a stand against the harassment and assault of lesbians by “transwomen”, describing the current situation as akin to ‘corrective rape’ and ‘conversion therapy.’’

www.gettheloutuk.com/blog/lesbians-at-ground-zero.html

Thehawki · 19/05/2021 09:37

I mean, you knew the fire this would light OP. The (majority of) people on this website just disagree with you. I see that you said we should have individual cubicles, I agree with you there but I’m not sure how viable an option it is. What about a single separate cubical that is unisex/ meant for trans people? Unfortunately it’s hard to change infrastructure that has been here for decades, and in reality it’s what needs to doing to make everyone feel safe. It is important that women feel safe(and are safe), just as it is important that trans people feel safe.

Helleofabore · 19/05/2021 09:42

TheVampiresWife

It has been asked on this thread but I have also asked a number of posters on the Lesbian Visibility Threads so I am going to ask it again of OP and the supportive posters.

On the day of fighting against homophobia, Biphobia and transphobia, what did you actively do to eliminate the abuse lesbians receive, including rape threats and death threats, for clearly stating their boundaries in not accepting male sex partners?

And what did the trans activist community actively do to eliminate the abuse lesbians receive, including rape threats and death threats, for clearly stating their boundaries in not accepting male sex partners?

It is an entirely appropriate discussion point. Please let us know what was done and what we can do to support those efforts to ensure that Lesbians, particularly young lesbians, are NEVER harassed again in ANY way from people who are males who consider themselves lesbians, regardless of whether they have a penis or not.

Naunet · 19/05/2021 09:43

Thanks for starting this conversation OP, it’s turned into one of the most educational, important and engaging threads I’ve seen on AIBU in a long long time. 👏👏👏

SpindleWhorl · 19/05/2021 09:46

Stonewall have an interesting take on this. For them a trans person's right to privacy is more important than another person's right to informed consent

That'll be one of those conflicts of rights thingummies that Stonewall says, erm, don't exist.

FOJN · 19/05/2021 10:00

That'll be one of those conflicts of rights thingummies that Stonewall says, erm, don't exist.

There's a whole website dedicated to recording the non existent conflict of rights. There's lots of accounts of things that haven't happened. I think I've figured out what's going on; if women would just shut up then the conflict of rights would cease to exist, so the real problem is women talking about their experiences.

www.noconflicttheysaid.org/

VestaTilley · 19/05/2021 10:03

Human beings can’t change sex. I don’t have to collude in somebody else’s lie.

I reserve the right to expect female only spaces and services.

Men pretending to be women is insulting cosplay. The end.

5zeds · 19/05/2021 10:08

Men pretending to be women is insulting cosplay. I find it insulting too. It appears only some people are allowed to be offended.Hmm

HeadIsFucked · 19/05/2021 10:13

@SpindleWhorl

Stonewall have an interesting take on this. For them a trans person's right to privacy is more important than another person's right to informed consent

That'll be one of those conflicts of rights thingummies that Stonewall says, erm, don't exist.

Is it any wonder they have to pretend they don't exist though really.

I mean, if they don't say that, they have to admit to be fighting for

The 'right' for it to be legal to rape people by deception because privacy Hmm

Just like they have to claim no conflict exists between 'trans rights' (as currently demanded, I stand by the fact that advancing 'trans rights' does not have to conflict with womens rights) and womens rights. As admitting, honestly, that they are currently campaigning to remove womens sex based rights, single sex spaces, the lot..is not a good look. Mind, it may be marginally better than advocating that rape is outright legal..

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 19/05/2021 10:14

[quote FOJN]That'll be one of those conflicts of rights thingummies that Stonewall says, erm, don't exist.

There's a whole website dedicated to recording the non existent conflict of rights. There's lots of accounts of things that haven't happened. I think I've figured out what's going on; if women would just shut up then the conflict of rights would cease to exist, so the real problem is women talking about their experiences.

www.noconflicttheysaid.org/[/quote]
That's why they shout "bigot" and "Terf" every time women try to speak. To shut women up. It's wearing thin.

Imasoulman · 19/05/2021 10:24

@VestaTilley

Human beings can’t change sex. I don’t have to collude in somebody else’s lie.

I reserve the right to expect female only spaces and services.

Men pretending to be women is insulting cosplay. The end.

Completely agree with your second point.

The first and third though really come down to definitions, could you expand ?
Or do you simply not accept that Transgender is a thing ?

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 19/05/2021 10:35

For them a trans person's right to privacy is more important than another person's right to informed consent.

People can and have been prosecuted for this, and the victim impact statements of those coerced into sex by deception indicate how traumatic this has been for them.

There are clear laws surrounding consent, which no ideology in the world can assume the right to circumvent. So why isn't anyone challenging Stonewall - legally or by other means - for peddling such a dangerous message?

RedDogsBeg · 19/05/2021 10:35

Would you like to comment on the experience of my daughter, which I posted upthread? Does that warrant a 'sadly' from you too?

No they won't comment on the experience of your daughter TheVampiresWife, after all your daughter is female and therefore they don't give a flying fuck.

Thecatonthemat · 19/05/2021 10:40

You and your friend OP ABU in assuming your position is in any way acceptable to most women. However thank you for posting it ( in case you honour us with your presence again) as it will no doubt have got a lot of women new to the subject wondering about why we have to deal with someone else’s problems by putting ourselves at risk. So sick of this attention seeking behaviour.

Kit19 · 19/05/2021 10:41

sex is immutable and cannot be changed no matter how much surgery and hormones a person takes. see attached photo of the male v female pelvis - there is no surgery that changes a male pelvis into a female one

gender is a social construct and entirely different

A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....
CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 10:43

@Boredoutmymind LMAO. Women would not be abled to identify transmen who look exactly like CIS males. Some women think teenage bio females with short hair are males. Even worse butch lesbians have been harassed for using women's toilets

Laugh all you like. But think about what you wrote.

Think about the culture of fear that must exist for women to try to protect themselves against anyone who looks even vaguely male.

I don't know why that's funny. It's fucking terrifying.

And yes, mistakes will happen whilst women are in the invidiuous position of having to safeguard themselves againt male incursions.

But lay the blame for that where it truly lies - with the sex that is most violent and intrusive - men!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 10:54

@DrSbaitso

It's ok, I found it.

www.datalounge.com/thread/22392276-trans-man-kicked-out-of-london-gay-sauna-for-not-having-a-penis

OP and other noble knights in this good fight, you will be going over there to exhort the user base there to be accepting and kind, right? Right?

OMG!

I don't think I have ever seen 'our' argument laid out by men before. The exact same issue, same words, same disgust and anger! The same "Why you always talking about trans issues, this is a gay site?" Bloody nNora!

And THIS

Um not quite, and here's why. The concerns of cis-men carry more weight than those of cis-women. That being the case, this minor dust up at the "men's club" will not be addressed by the trans community with the same level of toxic response as when the MTFs (men) go after cis-women, physically compromising their safety. Can you imagine a contingent of FTMs showing up in any arena to fist fight any cis-male who openly rejects FTM theory? Not going to happen - because, despite the rhetoric claiming otherwise, MTFs inherently understand that we live in a patriarchal society. They won't dare encroach on mens' spaces because the know the consequences would be swift and deliberate. Like the highly educated and competent cis-woman who routinely gets passed over for promotion, they understand making a big stink about how they are undermined only makes the situation worse. Conversely, MTFs preseve their male sense of priveledge in all of their engagements. That's why they have no trouble knocking some sense into any cis-woman who does not fall in line with and accept their direction.

Am I wrong?

I want to give that man a socially distanced fist bump! And this was THREE years ago!

Can we arrange a hook up!?!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 11:03

The first and third though really come down to definitions, could you expand ?
Or do you simply not accept that Transgender is a thing ? That's the problem Stonewall and TRAs have been cooking for a few years now. I mentioned it upthread. Women are ceasing to 'be nice' to use nice terminology, to be empathetic with TRA manufactured issues.

We don't have to expand, be logical, coherent or consistent. No one on the 'other' side ever is. Why hold women up to a higher standard?

Remember Staonewall insists that almost every human being on the planet fits under its Trans Umbrella. So, being good little women, we use that umbrella and say "Fuck no!"

If people you consider to be 'real' trans get inconvenienced in the fallout take it up with Stonewall - but be prepared, because your idea that EI is someghow a different kind of trans is considered by Stonewall to be extremely transphobic - see numerous threads and MNHQ admonishments on that particular Emperor, in or out of his new clothes.

Transgender is a 'thing' You know we know that because you have been round here for long enough to have read threads by other transwomen, friends and family of transpeople. But Stonewall has destroyed any meaningful conversation that could be had about mutual accommodation. Seeking to remove all sex as a protected characteristic has fucked up any 'nice' conversation that could have been had.

Take it up with them, not us! Find out just how much they like you and your moderate position. Then come back and discuss it with us, eyes wide open!

Theeyeballsinthesky · 19/05/2021 11:07

Bloody hell that data lounge thread made me want to cry. All the same arguments laid out here time and time again plus a complete acknowledgment that women are screwed because patriarchy and beaten metaphorically into silence

I cannot understand how TRA can hear ti let transphobic behaviours stand and aren’t over there lecturing them on a daily basis to beeee kiiiind. It’s almost as if they know having a go at men doesn’t tend to end well...

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/05/2021 11:07

@Kit19

sex is immutable and cannot be changed no matter how much surgery and hormones a person takes. see attached photo of the male v female pelvis - there is no surgery that changes a male pelvis into a female one

gender is a social construct and entirely different

One of our comment scrapers took a comment I made about the Q angle to Their Twitter page. Their followers were a mix of outraged and uneducated. But they all wished me to be taken aside and shown the error of ny ways!

Soemmetimes the simple truth - a man's Q angle, pelvic girdle just cannot move like a woman's - or vice versa - because the biomechanics just won't allow it. A man in motion looks like a man no matter how he is dressed, how he identifies, even if he is the world's best drag queen. Just as women cannot walk like a man, same reason - biomechnics!

Helleofabore · 19/05/2021 11:16

Sorry to hear that Curious. I think that many don’t like the unvarnished truth that the body doesn’t lie ultimately ..

JackieTheFart · 19/05/2021 11:16

Over 700 posts and nothing you want to engage with yet @Biber?