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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
SunnydaleClassProtector99 · 18/05/2021 21:23

Women say no.

Hard cheese op.

ArabellaScott · 18/05/2021 21:25

@Helleofabore

So all women here would be comfortable with trans men (biological women) who look like men, have beards etc. being in women's bathrooms?

I have watched this conversation unfold with transmen on twitter.

Many transmen are fully aware that their presentation if they have had testosterone treatments and developed facial hair and lower voice etc would cause traumatised women a great deal of distress. They discussed this on twitter and it seems that they would choose not to do that to women.

Some males who transition, or who are at various stages of transitioning, do NOT display the same sensitivity to the needs of traumatised females. However, I believe that some DO understand or have come to understand as they have matured.

Some are actively campaigning for third spaces even in the knowledge that it will suit the needs of female's who require single sex spaces.

It's funny, though, the transman I know, who is lovely, doesn't set off my 'male' alarm. You know at first I was slightly puzzled. Said person is quite tall. But there was something lacking, the usual just very slight on-guard-ness that I have with men. Eventually I clicked. Transman passes very well, at first glance, but I would be at ease in a confined space with them.
SpindleWhorl · 18/05/2021 21:26

I know I won't get an answer but it is very telling which cohort are the most esteemed and important and must be centre of all the attention all of the time.

A poster said on another thread, that we're supposed to worship the ground they walk on.

I think that's it. They're gods. Women are mere mortals, set far below. Allies and men are priests or something like that, organising the bringing in of 'tribute' from the mortal women to the gods.

Naunet · 18/05/2021 21:26

So all women here would be comfortable with trans men (biological women) who look like men, have beards etc. being in women's bathrooms?

Do you think this is some kind of gotcha? Transmen are female and do not pose the risk to men, that males pose to women. I know being woke means pretending that women are just as strong/dangerous/violent as men, but back in reality, we know that’s not true.

Men have nothing to fear from transmen, so if transmen are happy using the men’s bathrooms, what exactly is the problem?

pombear · 18/05/2021 21:28

Flowers yet again for those women who have felt the need to share their experiences to illustrate the need for single-sex spaces.

To those who don't usually visit the FWR (feminism and women's rights bit of this website)
If you're seeing this thread and thinking 'maybe I'll look into it a bit more now'?

As a PP linked - this is a really useful thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

If you're reading this thread and thinking, thanks Biber, understand your point of view but I'm a little more concerned about what it means for women and girls and am wondering what I can do to take action:

Here's a handy website:- sex-matters.org/

GlassBoxSpectacular · 18/05/2021 21:30

Transmen look like bio men so how you gonna distinguish between transmen and cis men?

No, they don’t. In the same way that transwomen do not look like bio women.

Blibbyblobby · 18/05/2021 21:34

What I find bizarre is that there seem to be an expectation that people (lesbians it seems in particular) have to justify who they want to sleep with. Putting aside the absurdity of demanding that people who are same sex attracted include people of the opposite sex as potential partners, no-one should have to justify their choices as to whom they want to have sex with. You may not want to sleep with someone else for a multitude of reasons, lots of which are indefinable. No-one owes anyone else sex!

Indeed, but I'm sure most females have had the experience of a bloke trying to "logic our knickers off" by countering any reason we give to not want to sleep with them with a reason why it's not actually a problem.

Really we should just say "I don't fancy you" but female socialisation makes it hard, plus when we do say something blunt we tend to get an aggressive verbal (or worse, physical) response.

Luckily, the older one gets, the easier it seems to deliver a firm "fuck off".

littlebillie · 18/05/2021 21:45
Biscuit
TooYoungToNotice · 18/05/2021 22:08

You need new propaganda OP

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 18/05/2021 22:26

*So all women here would be comfortable with trans men (biological women) who look like men, have beards etc. being in women's bathrooms?
*
We're not idiots. Trans men, because they're female are on average smaller, less broad and less well built than men. The trans men I have met were both quite slight. I didn't feel remotely threatened by them. The six foot trans woman who followed me round the supermarket because I did an inadvertent double take on the other hand...

stonecat · 18/05/2021 22:37

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Waitwhat23 · 18/05/2021 22:47

@Blibbyblobby totally agree - thinking about the words women get flung at them if they dare to turn down a man's advances - frigid, snooty bitch etc. And of course the accusation of being a lesbian because you don't want to sleep with that particular man. And yes, the threat of violence following a politely worded refusal (given female socialisation) always makes me think of that saying 'men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them'.

GreyhoundG1rl · 18/05/2021 22:54

@HecatesCatsInFancyHats

*So all women here would be comfortable with trans men (biological women) who look like men, have beards etc. being in women's bathrooms? * We're not idiots. Trans men, because they're female are on average smaller, less broad and less well built than men. The trans men I have met were both quite slight. I didn't feel remotely threatened by them. The six foot trans woman who followed me round the supermarket because I did an inadvertent double take on the other hand...
So much for only wanting to go about their business without drawing attention to themselves Hmm
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 18/05/2021 23:14

So, I've been doing some googling...

It used to be called International Day Against HOmophobia, producing the name IDAHO.

"The day, as a concept, was conceived in 2004. A year-long campaign culminated in the first International Day Against Homophobia on May 17, 2005. 24,000 individuals as well as organizations such as the International Lesbian and Gay Association(ILGA), the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission(IGLHRC), the World Congress of LGBT Jews, and the Coalition of African Lesbians signed an appeal to support the "IDAHO initiative".

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Day_Against_Homophobia,_Transphobia_and_Biphobia

This is a C&P from a document promoting the VERY FIRST IDAHO day, in 2005:

May 17th is the Intl Day Against Homophobia

inWORLD,04/05/2005

The decision of the World Health Organisation 15 years ago constitutes a historic date and powerful symbol for members of the LGBT community

On 17 May 1990, the General Assembly of the World Health Organization (WHO) removed homosexuality from their list of mental disorders. This action served to end more than a century of medical homophobia. The decision of the WHO constitutes a historic date and powerful symbol for members of the LGBT community and we feel that it is only normal that IDAHO be recognised and observed as every other International Day (i.e. International Women’s Day, International Human Rights Day etc).

Fifteen years ago, the International Lesbian and Gay Association was deeply involved in the process of getting the WHO to remove homosexuality from the list of mental disorders. ILGA is therefore strongly committed to commemorating this event by celebrating this first international day against homophobia.

Please help us to make this day a success by signing, in your name, in the name of your organisation or group, a petition in favour of IDAHO.

More importantly, help us to make the International Day Against Homophobia a reality on the ground by organizing a party, a protest, or any other act that would raise the visibility of IDAHO in your community.

If you do organise an event that specific day, please contact Louis-Georges Tin at the following address: [email protected]

For more information, please seethis website

We thank you for your support.

Source: <a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20140704014026/ilga.org/ilga/en/article/546" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20140704014026/ilga.org/ilga/en/article/546

Then in 2009, four years later...

In 2009, transphobia was added to the name of the campaign, and activities that year focused primarily on transphobia (violence and discrimination against transgender people). A new petition was launched in cooperation with LGBT organizations in 2009, and it was supported by more than 300 NGOs from 75 countries, as well as three Nobel Prizewinners (Elfriede Jelinek, Françoise Barré-Sinoussi, and Luc Montagnier). On the eve of May 17, 2009, France became the first country in the world to officially remove transgender issues from its list of mental illnesses.[7][8]

Source: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Day_Against_Homophobia,_Transphobia_and_Biphobia

So that's interesting.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 18/05/2021 23:23

Other quotes

Frenchman Louis-Georges Tin was founder of the day, and acted as its Committee Chairperson until his resignation in September 2013. He was succeeded by internationally renowned Venezuelan trans rights activist, lawyer and law professor Tamara Adrián, who became one of the first trans legislators in Latin America in 2015.[9]

Louis-Georges Tin and two other Committee members started a hunger-strike in June 2012 to urge the French president Hollande to introduce a UN resolution decriminalising homosexuality.[10]

InFrance,same-sex marriage has been legal since May 18, 2013, a decision announced on May 17.[11]

Biphobia was added to the name of the campaign in 2015.[12]

Minezatea · 18/05/2021 23:33

@TheVampiresWife

My teenage DD was frozen out by her closest friends, labelled transphobic and bullied relentlessly for saying that as a lesbian, she was not interested in relationships with people who had penises. She was so badly bullied she began self harming and is still, several years later, on anti depressants. She has no friends.

What do you say to girls like her, OP? Y'know, given it's International Day Against Homophobia and all? (Actually it was yesterday but let's not split hairs.)

I don't know what OP would say but I would say your daughter's friends were being homophobic and abusive. I hope she's recovered from what they did to her. Policing who people chose not to have sex with is always disgusting.
stonecat · 18/05/2021 23:46

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RedDogsBeg · 18/05/2021 23:53

PurgatoryofPotholes and note it is now all about Trans and how quickly it became so just like everything else including International Women's Day. Wonder why International Man's Day is not taken over by Transmen demanding they be placed front and centre, it's a puzzler for sure.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 19/05/2021 00:00

Maybe there's some male privilege mixed in here for the cause to have taken hold so quickly and to such an all encompassing extent?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/05/2021 00:28

Transmen look like bio men so how you gonna distinguish between transmen and cis men?

There's no such thing as "cis". and FTM trans people are female, so it's generally obvious what sex they are.

JocastaElastic · 19/05/2021 00:40

Having read OP's post, then read it again to double check, I can't see anything in their post that indicates which sex they are or which gender they identify with, yet the majority of responses to their post seem to suggest responders assume OP to be a trans-woman. They might not be; the OP might be a trans-man. Just saying....

ArcheryAnnie · 19/05/2021 00:50

To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you

The OP doesn't appear to have heard the news that to be trans in the UK (and the US, apparently) is to be statistically slightly safer than people who are not trans.

Not that you would ever hear this from them.

GreyhoundG1rl · 19/05/2021 00:59

@ArcheryAnnie

To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you

The OP doesn't appear to have heard the news that to be trans in the UK (and the US, apparently) is to be statistically slightly safer than people who are not trans.

Not that you would ever hear this from them.

Are you sure that isn't transphobic? 😉 From a movement that were peeved to have non existent trans murders excluded from women's murders, anything is possible.
nolongersurprised · 19/05/2021 01:33

twitter.com/heke_nig/status/1394799121458995203?s=21

Not a disgusting thread, but lists the many recent recordings of transwomen performing sex acts in female toilets and uploading it to porn sites.

Long gone OP : how are the trans community addressing those who identify as trans but clearly have a female toilet fetish?

DragonDoor · 19/05/2021 02:16

Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them

You must be aware that trans people are only one of many groups that have uncertainty in their lives and can feel marginalised.

There are ongoing situations around the world where people are regularly confronted with life or death situations and deprived of liberty - e.g. war, genocides, modern slavery etc.

People with disabilities, those who have been bereaved, parents of children who have chronic health problems all face uncertainty each day.

It would be natural for individuals within these groups to also feel anger towards the world at times, but to hang on to those thoughts and direct them to the general population is unhealthy.

It’s not Mary down the streets fault that homophobia and transphobia exist, any more than it is her fault that genocides happen.