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AIBU?

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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Helleofabore · 18/05/2021 19:04

TheVampiresWife

I am so sorry to hear this. It is simply ridiculous that this is happening on the 2020s.

SirVixofVixHall · 18/05/2021 19:06

TheVampiresWife
My teenage dd has also had friendship problems for speaking out on preserving single sex spaces. I am so sorry that your dd has been treated so awfully.

oxalisRed · 18/05/2021 19:09

To the OP, YABU. Fight for your own spaces and health provisions, stop trying to deny women our spaces and rights.

@TheVampiresWife so sorry for your DD Flowers

@Cocolapew you have my empathy Flowers

BrumBoo · 18/05/2021 19:10

@TheVampiresWife

My teenage DD was frozen out by her closest friends, labelled transphobic and bullied relentlessly for saying that as a lesbian, she was not interested in relationships with people who had penises. She was so badly bullied she began self harming and is still, several years later, on anti depressants. She has no friends.

What do you say to girls like her, OP? Y'know, given it's International Day Against Homophobia and all? (Actually it was yesterday but let's not split hairs.)

I've already mentioned the horrendous abuse lesbians are currently facing due to the new-age gender beliefs, but its always awful to hear even more stories like your daughters. It's laughable that homophobia and transphobia are lumped in together when often the latter perpetuates the former.
LizzieSiddal · 18/05/2021 19:17

So sorry about your DD TheVampire. Her “friends” have treated her dreadfully and ought to be ashamed of their homophobic behaviour.

Helleofabore · 18/05/2021 19:17

@TheVampiresWife

My teenage DD was frozen out by her closest friends, labelled transphobic and bullied relentlessly for saying that as a lesbian, she was not interested in relationships with people who had penises. She was so badly bullied she began self harming and is still, several years later, on anti depressants. She has no friends.

What do you say to girls like her, OP? Y'know, given it's International Day Against Homophobia and all? (Actually it was yesterday but let's not split hairs.)

I would like to hear OPs reply to this too.
GlassBoxSpectacular · 18/05/2021 19:36

I would like to hear OPs reply to this too.

I don’t think we’ll hear anything more from the OP.

The ‘thoughts’ in the opening post weren’t even hers in the first place, and her second foray into the thread didn’t exactly go well, so ... 🤷‍♀️

(We know you’re watching though, OP Wink)

ArabellaScott · 18/05/2021 19:36

TheVampiresWife

I'm so very sorry for your daughter's experiences. I hope she knows that there are many women out there fighting, in large ways and small ways, for her right to be herself and to counter the homophobia inherent in this movement. More power to her. I wish her strength and joy and good, solid friendships in years to come. Flowers

TheVampiresWife · 18/05/2021 19:46

I've just passed on everyone's wishes to DD and she says thank you. It genuinely means a lot to her to know that there are people who support her. I've also told her that when she's ready (she isn't at the moment, she's still terrified of the consequences) she'll find lots of support on MN.

From my own pov I'm so fucking angry that DD's coming to terms with her sexuality, and her subsequent coming out, wasn't a positive, validating experience and was marred by people telling her she wasn't a proper lesbian but a vagina fetishist. And that if she rejected a transwoman she would cause that person hurt and to do so would be cruel. The implications of that are terrifying, and I'm genuinely horrified at the thought that there are lesbians who feel they have no choice but to go along with this for fear of being ostracised in precisely the same way DD was.

DrSbaitso · 18/05/2021 19:52

people telling her she wasn't a proper lesbian but a vagina fetishist.

The fuck???

LargeYorkshirePuddingAndGravy · 18/05/2021 19:54

I'm a lesbian and I have zero interest in people who were born with a penis.

Sticking a vagina on one of those people and calling them Susan just isn't going to cut it for me.

Tell your daughter she isn't alone and she doesn't have to back down. There are plenty of lesbians who feel the same way.

BrumBoo · 18/05/2021 19:56

@TheVampiresWife what lesbians (especially young ones like your daughter) are expected to put up with in terms of accepting a 'female penis' is sexual abuse disguised as 'be kind'. It completely undermines women's rights to 'no means no' when they tell women 'no means bigot'. She shouldn't have to fight for her right to say 'a lesbian doesn't want to have sex with a penis'. What an awful world we live in, I hope she realises how much support she has and how many people do see this shit for what it is.

Gumbomambo · 18/05/2021 19:59

Please pass on my thoughts to your daughter, how bloody bloody abusive is this ideology? There’s nothing homophobic in telling a young woman she is wrong not to like penis is there? Poor girl.

DrSbaitso · 18/05/2021 20:00

I'm a lesbian and I have zero interest in people who were born with a penis.

I'd have thought that was rather the point!

Are transwomen who are attracted to females obliged to date transwomen? Or, if attracted to males, obliged to date transmen?

@TheVampiresWife, do these loonies who victimised your daughter say the same thing to straight people? Do hetero men have to date transwomen? Do hetero women have to date transmen?

How can sexual orientation exist at all in their deranged world?

DeRigueurMortis · 18/05/2021 20:08

[quote Artichokeleaves]GreyhoundG1rl

In March this year, Jess Phillips read out in Parliament the names of 118 women killed in the last year by men to highlight the scale of male violence. The response from a trans lobbyist was to complain of transphobia because the list didn't include any trans women.

This thread may be of interest: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4189718-to-be-FURIOUS-that-Karen-Ingala-Smith-and-the-Counting-Dead-Women-Project-were-defamed[/quote]

Thank you for posting the link that pertains my post Thanks

Selkie1961 · 18/05/2021 20:09

Wow :-(
They are just me me me me me

SpindleWhorl · 18/05/2021 20:09

And that if she rejected a transwoman she would cause that person hurt and to do so would be cruel.

Surely the normal, healthy response to this is, 'and what?'

I've rejected plenty of chaps in my time. And clear rejections they have been; and, like a publican, I wasn't obliged to give my reasons.

If any of these chaps had said I had to suck on his dick or he would harm himself, or feel sad, or tell his friends to pile in on me, I'd have been more minded to have a chat with the police than to give in.

The crap these poor girls have been fed in schools and online is a bloody scandal.

Sunflowers095 · 18/05/2021 20:10

@titchy

I'm confused OP - you seem to be labouring under the delusion that women want to deny transwomen access to the loo. If that's what you've been told I'm afraid you are very very wrong. No one wants that. Just use the loo designed for your biological sex that's all!

HTH.

So all women here would be comfortable with trans men (biological women) who look like men, have beards etc. being in women's bathrooms?

Because you could guess that they don't have a penis? And you think your young daughters would also be more comfortable with people who look like men in female bathrooms?

midgedude · 18/05/2021 20:19

Most people , especially women , can accurately sex others ( when physically in same location) so transmen should not be a problem for most women

Blue4YOU · 18/05/2021 20:24

And though admittedly I can’t be arsed to read the thread.. biphobia... does that involve toilets and a fear of death too?

Helleofabore · 18/05/2021 20:24

So all women here would be comfortable with trans men (biological women) who look like men, have beards etc. being in women's bathrooms?

I have watched this conversation unfold with transmen on twitter.

Many transmen are fully aware that their presentation if they have had testosterone treatments and developed facial hair and lower voice etc would cause traumatised women a great deal of distress. They discussed this on twitter and it seems that they would choose not to do that to women.

Some males who transition, or who are at various stages of transitioning, do NOT display the same sensitivity to the needs of traumatised females. However, I believe that some DO understand or have come to understand as they have matured.

Some are actively campaigning for third spaces even in the knowledge that it will suit the needs of female's who require single sex spaces.

OldCrone · 18/05/2021 20:26

So all women here would be comfortable with trans men (biological women) who look like men, have beards etc. being in women's bathrooms?

Where do the transmen want to go? Do men object to transmen in men's toilets? If they look like men would the men even notice?

GreyhoundG1rl · 18/05/2021 20:27

And that if she rejected a transwoman she would cause that person hurt and to do so would be cruel.

Surely the normal, healthy response to this is, 'and what?'

I've rejected plenty of chaps in my time. And clear rejections they have been; and, like a publican, I wasn't obliged to give my reasons.

God, exactly this Confused
How have we reached a point where we’re supposed to sleep with anyone who asks (or demands, really) for fear of causing offence?? Shock.
Women weren’t put on this earth to do the bidding of any Tom, Dick or Harry (but especially Dick!) who thinks they have a God given right to our bodies.
Have they actually listened to themselves? How fucking regressive is this?

Blue4YOU · 18/05/2021 20:28

I’m at a loss as to how toilets ever became such a battle ground.

DeRigueurMortis · 18/05/2021 20:29

@Helleofabore

So all women here would be comfortable with trans men (biological women) who look like men, have beards etc. being in women's bathrooms?

I have watched this conversation unfold with transmen on twitter.

Many transmen are fully aware that their presentation if they have had testosterone treatments and developed facial hair and lower voice etc would cause traumatised women a great deal of distress. They discussed this on twitter and it seems that they would choose not to do that to women.

Some males who transition, or who are at various stages of transitioning, do NOT display the same sensitivity to the needs of traumatised females. However, I believe that some DO understand or have come to understand as they have matured.

Some are actively campaigning for third spaces even in the knowledge that it will suit the needs of female's who require single sex spaces.

Reminds me of a quote from a TM who said "being born a woman made me a better man".

I think it was from one of Glinners interviews.

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