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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
LargeYorkshirePuddingAndGravy · 18/05/2021 17:40

@Blankspace101

Why are homophobia and biphobia being lumped together with transphobia?

Why? Are you saying that one or more of the above is acceptable? There is no transphobia here if that’s what you are trying to imply.

No, I'm asking why they're lumped together into an international day.

Homosexuality and bisexuality aren't even similar to being trans. Trans isn't a sexuality so I never understand why it's always dumped in with LGB

It makes as much sense as it would to have an International anti racism and transphobic day Confused

They should be separate days.

stonecat · 18/05/2021 17:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Fernlake · 18/05/2021 17:43

@AngeloMysterioso

A few questions for the “allies”

Exactly how many women have to be raped and/or sexually assaulted by transgender prison inmates before you say “maybe we shouldn’t put transwomen in women’s prisons”??

Exactly how many transwomen have to video themselves wanking off in communal women’s changing rooms and toilets before you say “maybe we shouldn’t let transwomen into women’s toilets and changing rooms”??

Exactly how many female sportswomen need to lose a college scholarship, or a chance at competing for their country, or have their skull cracked open by a transgender opponent before you say “maybe transwomen shouldn’t take part in women’s sports”??

Exactly how many traumatised women have to be further traumatised by having a male in their safe space before you say “maybe transwomen don’t belong in women’s shelters”??

Because as far as I’m concerned, one is too many. And we went past that number long ago.

The usual answer is it doesn't really matter. Because women are going to get bashed, beaten, raped anyway.

Plus the mythical women who are stronger, more violent, and more motivated to predate than any transwoman.

But really, you can just ignore everything except the first sentence in my post.

Helleofabore · 18/05/2021 17:43

To posters who have stated that they believe that posts left standing after moderation on this thread are hateful, you might really need to revisit where you have taken that view from.

In the past, lobby groups such as Stonewall has been allowed to set policies that have replicated out to different organisations. This included such things as anyone who believes there is a conflict in the rights of women and those of transwomen are phobic and so on.

Well this week has seen some rather good news in updating this. The new chair of the ERHC has released a statement that women are NOT transphobic in stating that there is conflicts and what their needs are as a group.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8123df6c-b4db-11eb-9055-64edaa2be8dd?shareToken=5c72af8b5e78baccf2996520f8a25b3b

And frankly, after this release from the Essex University, ANYONE relying on Stonewall to guide them as to what is phobic and even, what is lawful, should be looking for sources elsewhere. If they can find any that is, because Stonewall's reach has been only recently checked and seem about to questioned in Government in the near future.

Either way, this from 243.11 of the Event's Review Report for University of Essex by an independent law firm is quite clear. And there are other fine mentions along the same line in their too.

The policy is reviewed annually by Stonewall, and its incorrect summary of the law does not appear to have been picked up by them. In my view the policy states the law as Stonewall would prefer it to be, rather than the law as it is. To that extent the policy is misleading.

The link is in here.

www.essex.ac.uk/blog/posts/2021/05/17/review-of-two-events-with-external-speakers

So, the implication that women are transphobic and hateful for stating their needs and that there is a conflict with trans rights needs to stop. It is in fact, misogynistic and hateful to women to tell keep following this line of silencing when posts and statement have not been, in fact, phobic or hateful.

These groups are the same groups that have been telling anyone who will listen that women who state their boundaries do so out of 'hate' which has led on this thread to someone stating the hyperbolic:

The anti-trans views expressed so regularly on MN are the reasons why so many trans people don't want to go out at all.

FOJN · 18/05/2021 17:44

They campaigned about it. They wanted women to not be able to object if they were discriminated against on the basis of their sex.

And then, even when presented with the evidence of their actions, denied they'd tried to replace sex with gender in the EA. Some might call that gaslighting or lying.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 18/05/2021 17:45

"It isn't the body part between your legs that makes a person a danger to society." -- As a victim of rape who suffered for years with PTSD, I find this comment gratuitously offensive

Me too. There is so much wrong with that factually inaccurate comment, and the attitude behind it, that I can only presume it was intended as an insult.

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 17:45

I agree stonecat. Whilst of course not all transwomen are sex offenders, obviously, transwomen do seem to be well represented in prison when compared against the backdrop of other, mainly male, sex offenders. Why is this the case?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 17:54

And then, even when presented with the evidence of their actions, denied they'd tried to replace sex with gender in the EA. Some might call that gaslighting or lying.

Not only that, a senior Comms person on Twitter (the same one who has announced he is taking a sabbatical because of all the transphobia at the moment) claimed the exceptions didn't exist. While Stonewall were campaigning to remove them.

https://twitter.com/Jefflez/status/1177492963233976321?s=20

https://twitter.com/Kezfromchadders/status/1178300571792678919?s=20

OhWhyNot · 18/05/2021 17:55

Another message to women

Know your place it’s not for you to decide what’s best for you

Hmm

The most simple straightforward answer is what sex you are determines what toilet you use

There it’s not rocket science

Fernlake · 18/05/2021 17:56

@Helleofabore

To posters who have stated that they believe that posts left standing after moderation on this thread are hateful, you might really need to revisit where you have taken that view from.

In the past, lobby groups such as Stonewall has been allowed to set policies that have replicated out to different organisations. This included such things as anyone who believes there is a conflict in the rights of women and those of transwomen are phobic and so on.

Well this week has seen some rather good news in updating this. The new chair of the ERHC has released a statement that women are NOT transphobic in stating that there is conflicts and what their needs are as a group.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8123df6c-b4db-11eb-9055-64edaa2be8dd?shareToken=5c72af8b5e78baccf2996520f8a25b3b

And frankly, after this release from the Essex University, ANYONE relying on Stonewall to guide them as to what is phobic and even, what is lawful, should be looking for sources elsewhere. If they can find any that is, because Stonewall's reach has been only recently checked and seem about to questioned in Government in the near future.

Either way, this from 243.11 of the Event's Review Report for University of Essex by an independent law firm is quite clear. And there are other fine mentions along the same line in their too.

The policy is reviewed annually by Stonewall, and its incorrect summary of the law does not appear to have been picked up by them. In my view the policy states the law as Stonewall would prefer it to be, rather than the law as it is. To that extent the policy is misleading.

The link is in here.

www.essex.ac.uk/blog/posts/2021/05/17/review-of-two-events-with-external-speakers

So, the implication that women are transphobic and hateful for stating their needs and that there is a conflict with trans rights needs to stop. It is in fact, misogynistic and hateful to women to tell keep following this line of silencing when posts and statement have not been, in fact, phobic or hateful.

These groups are the same groups that have been telling anyone who will listen that women who state their boundaries do so out of 'hate' which has led on this thread to someone stating the hyperbolic:

The anti-trans views expressed so regularly on MN are the reasons why so many trans people don't want to go out at all.

Exactly. And targeting women who are then de-platformed, silenced, censored or harassed because of their questioning, could now be deemed indirect discrimination on the basis of their sex. Since it is largely women to whom it happens (because they are the most affected).
FOJN · 18/05/2021 17:56

Whilst of course not all transwomen are sex offenders, obviously, transwomen do seem to be well represented in prison when compared against the backdrop of other, mainly male, sex offenders.

It would be interesting to see the figures before we had de facto self ID. I wonder if it would even be possible to isolate the figures for analysis, self ID has been creeping in for years.

DeRigueurMortis · 18/05/2021 18:00

@financialrecovery

Jesus is there anything trans people can have without being jumped on 🙄

In March this year, Jess Phillips read out in Parliament the names of 118 women killed in the last year by men to highlight the scale of male violence.

The response from a trans lobbyist was to cry transphobia because the list didn't include any trans women.

No TW were killed in last year or indeed the year before.

So when you say can't trans people have something for themselves perhaps consider why in return they can't even respect a day of remembrance of women in a club no one wants to join....

stonecat · 18/05/2021 18:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 18:03

Not only that, a senior Comms person on Twitter (the same one who has announced he is taking a sabbatical because of all the transphobia at the moment) claimed the exceptions didn't exist. While Stonewall were campaigning to remove them.

They are utterly clueless. How could they give advice on the law when they haven't got a scooby on what the law is. I really hope they get sued. Over and over again.

GreyhoundG1rl · 18/05/2021 18:03

In March this year, Jess Phillips read out in Parliament the names of 118 women killed in the last year by men to highlight the scale of male violence.

The response from a trans lobbyist was to cry transphobia because the list didn't include any trans women.

No TW were killed in last year or indeed the year before.

That's almost funny, in a surreal sort of way. Trans people wanted in on a list of murdered women, even though no trans people had been murdered...
🤯🤯🤯

GlassBoxSpectacular · 18/05/2021 18:04

@SpindleWhorl

I just came to this thread and saw it is very long, so clicked on 'See All of the OP's Posts'. There's only the one, apparently, in 22 pages.

It's quite hard to debate with a post, dump and run.

Apparently the OP made a brief foray back into the thread, but had a name-change fail so got their post deleted and scarpered.

Kind of odd to post a lengthy OP at someone else’s request and then run away. Confused

But perhaps OP and her Internet-challenged “friend” are firm advocates of #nodebate 🤷‍♀️

midgedude · 18/05/2021 18:06

Perhaps op felt their message was so strong it needed no support

Perhaps op had educated themselves and changed their mind

GlassBoxSpectacular · 18/05/2021 18:06

That's almost funny, in a surreal sort of way. Trans people wanted in on a list of murdered women, even though no trans people had been murdered...

Always transphobically excluded from the lived experience of ‘real’ women. That’s figurative violence right there (versus the actual violence that put all of those privileged ‘Cis’ women on the murdered list)

FOJN · 18/05/2021 18:09

But perhaps OP and her Internet-challenged “friend” are firm advocates of #nodebate

Leaving us to talk amongst ourselves isn't a great strategy it just allows sunlight to be bought to the lurkers. I'd welcome reasoned debate but as that's not available I'll settle for sunlight.

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 18:09

That's almost funny, in a surreal sort of way. Trans people wanted in on a list of murdered women, even though no trans people had been murdered..

Well being on the list proves the violence against them, apart from the fact that they had been fortunate enough not to experience that, hence not being being on the list, because no transwoman was murdered. 🤦 Transwomen in the UK are without a doubt, the safest group of all, despite what they say to the contrary.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 18/05/2021 18:15

@GreyhoundG1rl

In March this year, Jess Phillips read out in Parliament the names of 118 women killed in the last year by men to highlight the scale of male violence.

The response from a trans lobbyist was to cry transphobia because the list didn't include any trans women.

No TW were killed in last year or indeed the year before.

That's almost funny, in a surreal sort of way. Trans people wanted in on a list of murdered women, even though no trans people had been murdered...
🤯🤯🤯

Fuck me, a simultaneously stupid, selfish and cruel thing to complain about. Wow.

Was there a response from them when people flagged the fact that, you know, no trans women were murdered in that year? Or is it transphobic to point out that fact?

I can't even tell what's parody anymore!

FOJN · 18/05/2021 18:15

Trans people wanted in on a list of murdered women, even though no trans people had been murdered..

For anyone in doubt about the extremism of the current gender relgion just ponder that some adherents feel invalidated and discriminated against because none of them were murdered and then reflect that posters on this board have been accused of lacking empathy, even murdered women are just props to some of the activists.

Helleofabore · 18/05/2021 18:17

@FOJN

But perhaps OP and her Internet-challenged “friend” are firm advocates of #nodebate

Leaving us to talk amongst ourselves isn't a great strategy it just allows sunlight to be bought to the lurkers. I'd welcome reasoned debate but as that's not available I'll settle for sunlight.

Well. I am sure that the readers are really finding some of the links very educational.

It is getting harder to silence women with so much evidence, anecdotally found by transitioners on line as well as studies and academic papers, and now some of the new guidance being released. All that is left is 'shame, shame, shame' and even that has lost its affect after so long because people now see it for what it is - empty manipulative rhetoric.

joystir59 · 18/05/2021 18:20

Trans ideology is homophobic especially against lesbians

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 18:21

It like the way some transwomen feel they should not excluded from fgm visibility and awareness, even though this does not ever impact them. (Note some transwomen, not all of them obviously. Some of them do get how crazy this is). But really what sort of person complains about being excluded from the visibility of this, and minimising the dreadful appalling experience some women have gone through. To their face.