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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Thatswatshesaid · 18/05/2021 16:25

@financialrecovery

*The issue isn't that people don't want trans people in sex segregated spaces. It's that there are people pretending to be trans who have a different agenda*

The thing I don't get about this is that if you wanted to invade a toilet or changing room to attack or ogle women, surely it would be easier just to don a hi vis and a cloth and pretend to be a cleaner, than pretend to be trans?

I think that's why it feels anti trans to me. The suggestion that trans people would take advantage of this. I can see the point in prisons for example. But in public anybody can walk in to a women's toilet. Nobody stops you. Why are trans targeted?

It’s part of the sexual enjoyment to dress as women. Unfortunately for trans people and women there is a section of male society that is turned on by wearing women’s clothing. This is why more formal processes of transition is preferable to self ID.
Leafstamp · 18/05/2021 16:26

Yes, sadly there will be very decent, honest transwomen who had previously lived their lives fairly harmoniously alongside women who will be adversely affected by strict sex-segregation rules.

But sadly, that’s life for you - most of us learnt it at school: the minority often spoil things for the majority by pushing boundaries; and then rules have to brought in to restore the order that existed before less decent and honest types started taking the piss.

Leafstamp · 18/05/2021 16:31

In relation to a couple of PP for anyone reading and not it already aware then it’s worth reading up on Autogynephilia.

I’m not making any generalised comment or judgment about it, but people need to know that by individual’s own admissions it does exist within the trans community.

DrSbaitso · 18/05/2021 16:40

It's not trans women we are worried about, it's predatory men who pose as trans women and who, if this lobby gets its way, wouldn't even need to do any posing.

Though by the Stonewall definition, they are trans women, and therefore women, too. You're not helping your cause, Stonewall.

Fernlake · 18/05/2021 16:45

@Leafstamp

In relation to a couple of PP for anyone reading and not it already aware then it’s worth reading up on Autogynephilia.

I’m not making any generalised comment or judgment about it, but people need to know that by individual’s own admissions it does exist within the trans community.

Baroness Faulkner, head of the EHRC said last week

"Women must have the right to question transgender identity without being abused, stigmatised or risking losing their job, the new head of Britain’s equalities watchdog has warned.

In her first interview since taking office, the incoming chairwoman of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission said it was “entirely reasonable” for people to challenge the biological status of women who were born as men."

"Entirely reasonable".

Maybe this means that we can start to talk about things which have been censored up until now.

Fernlake · 18/05/2021 16:48

@DrSbaitso

It's not trans women we are worried about, it's predatory men who pose as trans women and who, if this lobby gets its way, wouldn't even need to do any posing.

Though by the Stonewall definition, they are trans women, and therefore women, too. You're not helping your cause, Stonewall.

Stonewalls cause was to get sex as a protected characteristic removed from equality law.

They campaigned about it. They wanted women to not be able to object if they were discriminated against on the basis of their sex.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Stonewall-home-learning-for-parents.pdf

amusedtodeath1 · 18/05/2021 16:49

Welcome to womanhood OP. Feeling safe is a privilege we don't have. Addressing the reason why women don't feel safe enough to share their spaces with Trans Women might be the best place to start.

SirVixofVixHall · 18/05/2021 16:50

@DrSbaitso

It's not trans women we are worried about, it's predatory men who pose as trans women and who, if this lobby gets its way, wouldn't even need to do any posing.

Though by the Stonewall definition, they are trans women, and therefore women, too. You're not helping your cause, Stonewall.

Are all transwomen virtuous then ? Half of the transwomen in prison are sex offenders, are they all pretending ? I am worried about male people as a sex. Immaterial how they dress or what they call themselves.
Leafstamp · 18/05/2021 16:51

The more I’m reading and thinking about all this, the more I realise that Stonewall have set up an own goal. Idiots.

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 16:51

They campaigned about it. They wanted women to not be able to object if they were discriminated against on the basis of their sex.

That is so repulsive and abusive. One has to question the motives of any organisation that does this. And the conclusion is not good. They are not credible at all and companies need to stop using them for guidance. Otherwise they may find themselves on the wrong side of the law.

SpindleWhorl · 18/05/2021 16:52

I just came to this thread and saw it is very long, so clicked on 'See All of the OP's Posts'. There's only the one, apparently, in 22 pages.

It's quite hard to debate with a post, dump and run.

Budapestdreams · 18/05/2021 16:55

Well said.
Happy international Day against homophobia, transphobia and biphobia.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 16:57

It was yesterday.

Helleofabore · 18/05/2021 16:58

Yes Budapest I thought that Spindle did say it all really.

HouseOfGoldandBones · 18/05/2021 16:58

No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy.

I completely agree. I feel uncomfortable sharing female spaces with those who aren't female. And yes, I agree I am entitled to the privacy that single-sex spaces offers me.

So glad we agree.

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 16:58

Well said.

Which bit?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 18/05/2021 16:58

Are all transwomen virtuous then ? Half of the transwomen in prison are sex offenders, are they all pretending ? I think that's where "It never happens" meets reality and nobody knows which was cause and which effect!

Either way, that roundabout has come full circle and it wasn't women turning the fucking thing!

Theeyeballsinthesky · 18/05/2021 17:12

I want to scream when people say things like “well Eddie izzard isn’t really trans” as if it was women who defined what was meant by transgender and were desperate to drag in people who cross dress or are gender fluid

This is all down to fucking stonewall!! When they started with this, lots of women said to them that they were drawing the definition too wide and were screamed at for being bigots, transphobes and accused of literal violence and wanting trans people dead

To then be lectured at about the definition of trans being too wide is the absolute epitome of frustration!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 17:14

This is all down to fucking stonewall!! When they started with this, lots of women said to them that they were drawing the definition too wide and were screamed at for being bigots, transphobes and accused of literal violence and wanting trans people dead

To then be lectured at about the definition of trans being too wide is the absolute epitome of frustration!

This. Take it up with Stonewall.

SpindleWhorl · 18/05/2021 17:18
A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....
HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 18/05/2021 17:18

You need to understand that there is a fundamental difference between Eddie Izzard etc and people who desperately need to transition.

The demands being made of women here are all or nothing. Self ID, for example, would mean anyone who says they are a woman being considered one by law. That means if EI says on his "girl mode" days he's a woman then a woman he should be treated as (never mind that he's sticking to boy mode for his more lucrative acting parts). Organisations like Stonewall advocate for the "trans umbrella" it is so broad it means women's and girl's spaces being made available to pretty much anyone who wants to access them because all they need do is identify as trans. Now I can see the fundamental problem with that. We are seeing this already in women's prisons with intact males being housed with female inmates, meanwhile almost daily we see stories of men installing cameras in women and girls private spaces and so on, it's a safeguarding nightmare. I have huge sympathy for those with gender dysphoria and believe like any other person with mental health issues they should have access to therapy and care, but telling women they need to relax their boundaries to make some people feel better about themselves isn't wise.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 17:20

^

AngeloMysterioso · 18/05/2021 17:34

A few questions for the “allies”

Exactly how many women have to be raped and/or sexually assaulted by transgender prison inmates before you say “maybe we shouldn’t put transwomen in women’s prisons”??

Exactly how many transwomen have to video themselves wanking off in communal women’s changing rooms and toilets before you say “maybe we shouldn’t let transwomen into women’s toilets and changing rooms”??

Exactly how many female sportswomen need to lose a college scholarship, or a chance at competing for their country, or have their skull cracked open by a transgender opponent before you say “maybe transwomen shouldn’t take part in women’s sports”??

Exactly how many traumatised women have to be further traumatised by having a male in their safe space before you say “maybe transwomen don’t belong in women’s shelters”??

Because as far as I’m concerned, one is too many. And we went past that number long ago.

Selkie1961 · 18/05/2021 17:36

@MaxNormal

To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you

The experience of women, right there.

Yes, women's experiene that
PronounssheRa · 18/05/2021 17:37

AngeloMysterioso

I asked similar hours ago, not one answer.

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