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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
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21
DrSbaitso · 18/05/2021 15:34

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@Leafstamp The good Dr is rounding up the ridiculous accusations, for ease of sniggerment! Grin[/quote]
That's it, thank you.

Anyone who is not familiar with my namesake, do look it up. Have a play. You'll get far more intelligent and reasoned conservation than you will from the "You're transphobic! And homophobic! And biphobic! And racist! And you spread Covid!" nonsense being inflicted on us here.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 15:35

This is what happens when you can't make a case on its own merits. Appropriation is all you have.

This! We have to mention Jim Crow laws when we are actually talking about the oppressed sex class (females) wanting a space free from all members of the oppressor sex class (males) who as a sex commit sex based violence and harassment against them.

The clear reverse of the oppressor class (white people) not wanting to share spaces with the oppressed class (black people) because they see them as an inferior race of humans.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 18/05/2021 15:35

No problem @Leafstamp it happens.

I recognised the Dr username so had a 'tone of voice' ready to read that post in Smile

Fernlake · 18/05/2021 15:37

My empathy has limits, too. No bigotry or intolerance.

Women Not consenting to mixed sex spaces isn't intolerance MmeLaraque.

The answer is no.

Imasoulman · 18/05/2021 15:38

@BillyTodd

I do my darned best to try to have empathy for these posters, and I do. Why do they never demonstrate any empathy for me (i.e. women)

I do demonstrate empathy and respect for all women, I support single sex facilities, I disagree with trans women competing in women's sports being in women's prisons etc

But even so on this thread alone I have been told that I am mentally disabled and being Trans is a lifestyle choice !
It's pretty soul destroying

SoMuchForSummerLove · 18/05/2021 15:39

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It's quite obvious to anyone who isn't mired in the ideology, that many trans activists have zero consideration or care for women. We're props in the "Amazing Story of Me" as a former MNer once put it. No thanks, I have my own shit to concern myself with.
Props in the Amazing Story of Me.

That's it, that's exactly fucking it!

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 15:40

My empathy has limits, too. No bigotry or intolerance.

Speak for yourself.

The answer is still no.

NoLeafClover · 18/05/2021 15:42

I'm absolutely not transphobic. I will use anyone's preferred pronouns, I'd never dead name anyone, I believe that trans people should be allowed to live their lives free of persecution and prejudice. Just like all of us.

However, I draw the line at sharing toilets etc. (trigger warning here). I have been sexually assaulted three times (excluding the arse groping etc that women have to put up with all the time). By my 30 something boss at my part-time job when I was 16. By a stranger at a festival (went to sleep in my tent and woke up to a strange man pressed up against me with his fingers inside me). And by a man I was dating, who seriously assaulted, strangled and raped me. As a result, I get very anxious when alone with a man, with the exception of a trusted few. Now I know NAMALT etc. But I've had some horrific treatment at the hands of men. And sometimes it's very important to be able to escape to the women's toilets, where I can get a break, catch my breath and calm down, away from men. That's why I don't want penises in women's toilets. And tbh I won't apologise for that. I deserve to feel safe. It's taken me a long time to realise that. If transwomen are at risk from men, it's fucking awful, yes. But that needs to be addressed with the male perpetrators of violence. Why should women have to feel uncomfortable/vulnerable/unsafe to make up for male violence?

DrSbaitso · 18/05/2021 15:43

@CuriousaboutSamphire

No problem *@Leafstamp* it happens.

I recognised the Dr username so had a 'tone of voice' ready to read that post in Smile

The discussion is going to give me a parity error!
Fernlake · 18/05/2021 15:46

But even so on this thread alone I have been told that I am mentally disabled and being Trans is a lifestyle choice !
It's pretty soul destroying

I'm not being funny Imasoulman, but it really isn't about you. None of those comments were directed at you.

The OP said if they don't get to access women and their spaces, they'll shit themselves in public. That, in anyone's book, is unhinged.

A well-known police officer, Eddie Izzard, Pips Bunce, all part time transwomen. If they're not 'choosing' to be trans part time, then what is it?

persistentwoman · 18/05/2021 15:46

Thank you for sharing that NoLeafClover and so sorry.

Women should not have to share the details of some of the terrible things that happen to us in order to get people to understand why sex segregated spaces protect women. It's why the World Health Organisation openly campaigns for single sex toilets and washing facilities for women in other countries - to protect them from rape and murder by men.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 18/05/2021 15:46

Grin Those cross posts had me reaching to adjust my RAM timing Grin

CuriousaboutSamphire · 18/05/2021 15:49

I do demonstrate empathy and respect for all women, I support single sex facilities, I disagree with trans women competing in women's sports being in women's prisons etc We expect that, it is normal, logical. Nobody gets kudos for being a logical, sane, decent human being.

But even so on this thread alone I have been told that I am mentally disabled and being Trans is a lifestyle choice ! None of those comments, even taken at face value, or slightly out of context, , was about YOU though. YOU have not been told that YOU are anything at all!

Leafstamp · 18/05/2021 15:50

Thanks DrSbaitso and Curious. I’ve just doubled my tech-jargon knowledge by googling your username and “parity error”.

Now for what RAM is... Grin

NoLeafClover · 18/05/2021 15:51

@persistentwoman

Thank you for sharing that NoLeafClover and so sorry.

Women should not have to share the details of some of the terrible things that happen to us in order to get people to understand why sex segregated spaces protect women. It's why the World Health Organisation openly campaigns for single sex toilets and washing facilities for women in other countries - to protect them from rape and murder by men.

Thank you persistentwoman. It took me a long, long time to be able to speak about any of it. I was ashamed. I'm not any more. And I won't be shamed into backing down from wanting, from needing women only spaces any longer either. I'm not transphobic, I'm not intolerant, I don't hate anyone. I do however need a safe space.
Imasoulman · 18/05/2021 15:51

@Fernlake

*But even so on this thread alone I have been told that I am mentally disabled and being Trans is a lifestyle choice ! It's pretty soul destroying*

I'm not being funny Imasoulman, but it really isn't about you. None of those comments were directed at you.

The OP said if they don't get to access women and their spaces, they'll shit themselves in public. That, in anyone's book, is unhinged.

A well-known police officer, Eddie Izzard, Pips Bunce, all part time transwomen. If they're not 'choosing' to be trans part time, then what is it?

Oh yes the comments were aimed at transwomen as a whole not me per se, I understand that.

You need to understand that there is a fundamental difference between Eddie Izzard etc and people who desperately need to transition.

BrilliantBetty · 18/05/2021 15:52

It's just too big a risk, OP.

Sorry for your friend, it's not nice to feel excluded or uncomfortable. But women (human females) must be able to access female only spaces, like toilets.

We all know why. If you don't, you must be male. And even then, you do know why, don't you.

DrSbaitso · 18/05/2021 15:52

@Leafstamp

Thanks DrSbaitso and Curious. I’ve just doubled my tech-jargon knowledge by googling your username and “parity error”.

Now for what RAM is... Grin

Random access memory.

Which is actually a pretty good term for those who are part time trans women.

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 15:52

But even so on this thread alone I have been told that I am mentally disabled and being Trans is a lifestyle choice !
It's pretty soul destroying

No one called you mentally disabled. It's not all about you is it. 🙄And for some it clearly is a choice, even if it's a not a choice for others. Transwomen are not all a hive mind either are they.
Where there is a choice without a doubt, is whether to use the facilities that are not for your biological sex. That 💯 is a choice that some transwomen make, with no regard whatsoever for women.

FOJN · 18/05/2021 15:54

I can't believe we have to argue our case against these people.

I know, arguing against the absurdity of some accusations is demeaning. I'm trying to decide if this level of debate is an improvement on #no debate, aka, women sit down and stfu.

GlassBoxSpectacular · 18/05/2021 15:55

@dollyknocker

The trans hatred on this forum horrifies me. Thank you for sharing this, it is well written and thought provoking.
Hatred? Where? Have you reported it?

MN are pretty hot on deleting hate posts, so they’ll be zapped ASAP if you report them Smile

Leafstamp · 18/05/2021 15:55

You need to understand that there is a fundamental difference between Eddie Izzard etc and people who desperately need to transition.

Couple of comments on this:

Firstly, “You need to....” is not usually conducive to civil discussion. It smacks of “educate yourself” and other such mantras.

Secondly, what is this fundamental difference that we need to understand?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 18/05/2021 15:56

You need to understand that there is a fundamental difference between Eddie Izzard etc and people who desperately need to transition.

@Imasoulman Sshhhh! BE QUIET be very quiet. Maybe Stonewall won't notice your rampant transphobia!

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 15:56

You need to understand that there is a fundamental difference between Eddie Izzard etc and people who desperately need to transition

Well I doubt Eddie would agree with you that they is not genuine. It's a spectrum isn't it. Isn't that what we're told? And as we can't tell who is genuine and who is not, then it's a no to all born males.

PronounssheRa · 18/05/2021 15:56

You need to understand that there is a fundamental difference between Eddie Izzard etc and people who desperately need to transition.

Most here know that. Its stonewall, not women, who have expanded the definition of trans to include part time cross dressers etc