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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 15:20

The ignorance and bigotry and intolerance in MN and this thread in particular, are truly disgraceful. Mind, this is the same community where so many people refuse to distance/mask up/follow covid rules, so it doesn't surprise me one bit.

You'll be glad to know that doesn't apply to me Halo Why are you here exactly, if you hate MN so much? Just curious.

LimpLettice · 18/05/2021 15:21

@Helleofabore

What about those of us with double buggies? Those cubicles don't fit, so we leave the door ajar into the ladies. Should we do that straight into a unisex corridor?

What about any buggies? Packed with shopping or laying back, whatever. I could rarely fit a stroller into a toilet and always had to have a door jammed open. Even when having a flooding period.

Where are all the parent/child toilets to accommodate these needs while we make all the toilets unisex or gender neutral?

Yep those too!
Hoppinggreen · 18/05/2021 15:21

@Erikrie

Yes, I am old and bolshy enough to challenge anyone who makes me feel uncomfortable in a place they shouldn’t be.

Maybe you are. But having been punched in the face (twice) for challenging a male, you might understand my reticence for not wanting to do so. Being old and bolshy is one thing. Fighting back against male violence is quite another. I assume that you haven't had that experience. Because being bolshy will not protect you from harm.

I’m very sorry that happened to you, it really shouldn’t but men dont like being challenged by women - another reason why we need spaces we can access where there aren’t any.
twelly · 18/05/2021 15:21

People are allowed to have different views - I take the view that toilets, changing rooms, prisons should be segregated ie male and female - I do not believe in mixing sexes in those circumstances. Males and females have the right to use these facilities with those who are the same sex as them.

Hoppinggreen · 18/05/2021 15:22

I always wear a mask but apparently I am also a bigot
Confused

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 15:23

it is well written and thought provoking.

You must have read a different thing to me. It sounds like a poorly written anti-women's rights diatribe from where I am standing.

BillyTodd · 18/05/2021 15:23

I do my darned best to try to have empathy for these posters, and I do. Why do they never demonstrate any empathy for me (i.e. women)

Blankspace101 · 18/05/2021 15:25

Why are homophobia and biphobia being lumped together with transphobia?

Why? Are you saying that one or more of the above is acceptable? There is no transphobia here if that’s what you are trying to imply.

Naunet · 18/05/2021 15:26

The trans hatred on this forum horrifies me. Thank you for sharing this, it is well written and thought provoking

Is the the OP back under another name again?!

Seriously, point out the hatred, report it if you want, but women saying no to males, isn’t hate, although I’m sure a lot of misogynists would agree with you that it is.

Leafstamp · 18/05/2021 15:27

@midgedude

Will the op be trying to get in with post 1000?
I think the OP is what is affectionately known as a ‘plopper’.
Hoppinggreen · 18/05/2021 15:27

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@MmeLaraque

That comment of yours is straight out of the Crow laws.

What an offensive, inappropriate and ridiculous thing to compare her comment to. Weaponising racism in this debate is obscene. [/quote]
I don’t want men in the women’s toilets = I am a racist
Pretty big stretch there. Mind you probably only the 2nd most ridiculous thing I’ve read this week, pipped to the post by a comment that basically said JKR was an amalgam of Hitler and Jimmy Saville

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 15:27

It's quite obvious to anyone who isn't mired in the ideology, that many trans activists have zero consideration or care for women. We're props in the "Amazing Story of Me" as a former MNer once put it. No thanks, I have my own shit to concern myself with.

DrSbaitso · 18/05/2021 15:27

I'm keeping up with the thread. Wanting to preserve single sex spaces for reasons of women's safety is not only transphobic, it is equivalent to being homophobic and biphobic, and also means you don't observe Covid safety rules.

I can't believe we have to argue our case against these people.

Leafstamp · 18/05/2021 15:28

@DrSbaitso

I'm keeping up with the thread. Wanting to preserve single sex spaces for reasons of women's safety is not only transphobic, it is equivalent to being homophobic and biphobic, and also means you don't observe Covid safety rules.

I can't believe we have to argue our case against these people.

Say what now?! Confused
DrSbaitso · 18/05/2021 15:28

Sorry, forgot to add that it's racist too.

This is what happens when you can't make a case on its own merits. Appropriation is all you have.

DrSbaitso · 18/05/2021 15:29

Say what now?!

They're all things that have been said on this thread.

We are supposed to take these people seriously. More seriously than they take women's safety.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 18/05/2021 15:29

Interesting to see that this thread is no longer in "trending", despite having plenty of rapid responses - guessing MNHQ had a hand in that then!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 18/05/2021 15:30

@Leafstamp The good Dr is rounding up the ridiculous accusations, for ease of sniggerment! Grin

Leafstamp · 18/05/2021 15:30

@DrSbaitso

Sorry, forgot to add that it's racist too.

This is what happens when you can't make a case on its own merits. Appropriation is all you have.

Seriously, I have no idea what you’re talking about. Can you explain?
CuriousaboutSamphire · 18/05/2021 15:30

You've crossposted @Leafstamp

Leafstamp · 18/05/2021 15:31

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@Leafstamp The good Dr is rounding up the ridiculous accusations, for ease of sniggerment! Grin[/quote]
Ah, I see. Thank you! That makes sense! Apologies.

GreyhoundG1rl · 18/05/2021 15:32

What exactly is beyond your comprehension, Leafstamp?
Everyone else can understand just fine.

Helleofabore · 18/05/2021 15:32

The ignorance and bigotry and intolerance in MN and this thread in particular, are truly disgraceful.

I agree! The fact that women are being shamed for stating that they need single sex spaces for toileting is both ignorant and bigoted. The ignorance is also shown by the lack of knowledge about safeguarding females and considering the risk that ANY male poses in a single sex space.

It is really ignorant and bigoted to equate women stating they need space away from all males as being equivalent to racism.

Luckily, there are going to plenty of readers who will see this and the fact that there has been no evidence presented to assure females that they are at less risk from males who have transitioned, and even a post or two from a transwoman who does not agree with the OP.

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 15:34

The trans hatred on this forum horrifies me. Thank you for sharing this, it is well written and thought provoking.

Funny what people consider to be thought provoking isn't it. To me that's a mash of incoherent slurry plopped onto the page. Yet to you..it's thought provoking.
Takes all sorts doesn't it.

twelly · 18/05/2021 15:34

Having a view does not make someone "phobic" that is bullying behaviour, people are entitled to their views, slinging insults is not civilised.