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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
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21
Ijustknowitstimetogo · 18/05/2021 14:42

I don’t see why we can’t have single cubicle, unisex toilets

Absolutely! Proper cubicles for everyone and that gives us all dignity!

CatsArePeople · 18/05/2021 14:43

There's no empathy, and I really hope that none of the people who've posted anti-trans comments have a trans child/person in their family.

no, my empathy has limits. I believe that nobody deserves to be bullied. And I believe in not giving in to bullies.

midgedude · 18/05/2021 14:45

Empathy does not mean roll over backwards

Empathy with someone does not mean do what they tell you to do

Empathy also should run both ways

YetAnotherSpartacus · 18/05/2021 14:45

*Absolutely! Proper cubicles for everyone and that gives us all dignity!

But not safety. I’ve been in such toilets and have never felt safe. Plus there are other issues such as men pissing on seats and on the floor and leaving doors open while they urinate.

Kit19 · 18/05/2021 14:46

There's no empathy, and I really hope that none of the people who've posted anti-trans comments have a trans child/person in their family

and yet every Transwoman has a mother, a grandmother, often they have (or have had) wives, daughters too - where is their empathy for them as women?

why is the empathy only ever in one direction?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 14:46

Cocolapew I'm so sorry Thanks

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 14:46

There's no empathy, and I really hope that none of the people who've posted anti-trans comments have a trans child/person in their family. That would be an utterly miserable child/person. The ignorance and bigotry demonstrated thus far by anti-trans posters is a really sad reflection of the MN community

My children have brought up to be respectful to others. My son knows that he is a biological male, and regardless of his identity, knows that his presence in a female space where women undress would frighten them. Plenty of transwomen know and understand this. They use the male facilities or mixed sex where available. I absolutely have no doubt that my son would do the same, should he at some point identify as trans. Not all transwomen want to make the lives of women harder. Be like that. Do better.

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 14:47

Cocolapew Flowers

Tibtom · 18/05/2021 14:47

@Ijustknowitstimetogo

I don’t see why we can’t have single cubicle, unisex toilets

Absolutely! Proper cubicles for everyone and that gives us all dignity!

Mixed sex changing rooms with individual cubicals are associated with 18 times more assaults on women than single sex changing rooms. There is no juatification for exposing women to this increased risk.
LimpLettice · 18/05/2021 14:48

@midgedude

All people are at risk from men.

We don't have all unisex because it's a lot cheaper to have open plan spaces (and many women would restrict thier activities if the loos were unisex , but that's only women so it apparently doesn't matter )

Fully self continued cubicles take a lot of space

But o do think there should be more so that people who are unhappy with single sex space have an option

Do you not?

Aside from the cost, I've been pushed back into one of those cubicles and it's terrifying.

How will anyone taken ill be found? A colleague only survived a ruptured ectopic because someone saw her legs slumped under the door.

What about those of us with double buggies? Those cubicles don't fit, so we leave the door ajar into the ladies. Should we do that straight into a unisex corridor?

Have you looked up toilet voyeurism on pornhub? Do. Then tell me you want all toilets opened up so every time you go in, any man may have planted a cam ten minutes before. That's not a maybe, a rare occurrence, it's a massive issue.

ElphabaTWitch · 18/05/2021 14:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 14:51

But that doesn’t help transwomen who are at risk from men.

Again. Women aren't human shields for vulnerable males. Which other males should use women's facilities? Elderly men? Gay men? 15 year old boys?

midgedude · 18/05/2021 14:52

Options for some self contained cubicles meant In Addition to what we have today !

Hoppinggreen · 18/05/2021 14:55

[quote MmeLaraque]@Hoppinggreen:

Yes, I am old and bolshy enough to challenge anyone who makes me feel uncomfortable in a place they shouldn’t be.

Really? So who have you decided is in a place they shouldn't be? That comment of yours is straight out of the Crow laws.

16 year old DD not so much, so my concern is for her and her generation- despite the fact that wanting to protect them means they think i am a Transphobe

Your comments there make you sound like a transphobe. I wonder if your daughter has trans friends she prefers to protect against your bigotry and vitriol. Poor kid.[/quote]
Well yes, I think I am well within my rights to decide that men shouldn’t be in women’s toilets.
And you equating that with racism just shows the weakness of your argument.
And yes, my DD does have a Trans friend, I helped them choose their new name and given that she invites them into our house I am pretty sure she doesn’t feel the need to protect them from me.

Also, please quote the bigotry and vitriol in my post, I think you will find it impossible as there isn’t any. The hate is one sided

Hoppinggreen · 18/05/2021 14:56

@Helleofabore

Flowers to all women who have felt the need to have to publicly discuss their trauma in an attempt to have their needs heard.

It is reprehensible that this continues to be needed before anyone takes any notice.

In some quarters I am sure they will be accused of weaponising their experiences
Cocolapew · 18/05/2021 14:57

Thank you for the flowers.
Plus there are other issues such as men pissing on seats and on the floor and leaving doors open while they urinate

In one of the areas of my work, which is separate from the main building, we can share a single toilet if we want. I did with 3 male colleagues, I know them and I'm friendly with them, but in the end me and the other women had to tell them to stop using it, it was disgusting. I honestly think they thought we should be cleaning up after them.
During the height of covid, to stop corridors mixing, (we're in a school) the the male and females toilets were split by corridors rather than sexes. The women weren't having it at all and management had to change it. And these are men we know and like.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 18/05/2021 14:58

@ElphabaTWitch

You’re a fuckingn disgrace comparing the plight of trans people to those who have suffered and even died from Covid. Being trans and not being at the top of the list to get your bits removed/added in front of people who will DIE without surgery is exactly the way it should be. How can you say that?? Now we all know how trans feel cow we’ve struggled through Covid?? Are you hearing yourself right now?? I don’t give two monkey farts if your trans bi straight mixed whatever I don’t care. But clearly you care that everyone ‘else’ has struggled died or lost family or friends through Covid because now they are suffering with you. Get back under your rock. You are shocking.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
MmeLaraque · 18/05/2021 14:58

@CatsArePeople

There's no empathy, and I really hope that none of the people who've posted anti-trans comments have a trans child/person in their family.

no, my empathy has limits. I believe that nobody deserves to be bullied. And I believe in not giving in to bullies.

My empathy has limits, too. No bigotry or intolerance. That's why I'm a trans ally, amongst other things. I'm glad you don't give in to bullies. You won't allow a trans person to be bullied in your presence, then, will you. Excellent. Otherwise, you'd be a bigot and a hypocrite.
Helleofabore · 18/05/2021 14:58

What about those of us with double buggies? Those cubicles don't fit, so we leave the door ajar into the ladies. Should we do that straight into a unisex corridor?

What about any buggies? Packed with shopping or laying back, whatever. I could rarely fit a stroller into a toilet and always had to have a door jammed open. Even when having a flooding period.

Where are all the parent/child toilets to accommodate these needs while we make all the toilets unisex or gender neutral?

youvegottenminuteslynn · 18/05/2021 14:59

@MmeLaraque

That comment of yours is straight out of the Crow laws.

What an offensive, inappropriate and ridiculous thing to compare her comment to. Weaponising racism in this debate is obscene.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 18/05/2021 15:00

" it could be argued that Trans people have mental health issues and are therefore disabled "

@Imasoulman you might need to learn to read things more honestly. That doesn't say what you claim it does.

Helleofabore · 18/05/2021 15:00

@Ereshkigalangcleg

But that doesn’t help transwomen who are at risk from men.

Again. Women aren't human shields for vulnerable males. Which other males should use women's facilities? Elderly men? Gay men? 15 year old boys?

It never gets answered, does it? Ever.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 15:01

My empathy has limits

As I said, I haven't seen any. Just demands and diktats. No is a full sentence, MmeLaraque. Women, in the majority, don't want to share the spaces where they feel vulnerable with males.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 15:02

It never gets answered, does it? Ever.

No. That's the second poster I've asked.

Ijustknowitstimetogo · 18/05/2021 15:03

But not safety. I’ve been in such toilets and have never felt safe. Plus there are other issues such as men pissing on seats and on the floor and leaving doors open while they urinate.

The women’s is often messy enough. I much prefer my own soundproof (ish) space. I think most people would. It’s very primitive the fact that we can hear every noise. I don’t care if it is another woman I would still prefer my privacy. It’s safe because the entries are still visible to everyone. This would solve most issues.