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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
ChubbyMsSunshine · 18/05/2021 13:56

Did anyone get a screenshot of @GuidonianHand before it got deleted?

acatcalledjohn · 18/05/2021 13:56

@financialrecovery

Jesus is there anything trans people can have without being jumped on 🙄

Jesus is there anything women can have without having it invaded by men 🙄

Claire4567 · 18/05/2021 13:57

@MmeLaraque 'Trans Ally'? Meaning ready to play the game of top trumps with different groups' rights then? I can play the Female Ally card in that case. And our rights are the ones seemingly up for grabs. No, not on my watch.

One can be supportive of trans rights without shitting on women, by campaigning for third spaces. And you are being rather bigotted assuming that posters supporting women's rights have no trans people in their own lives.

Naunet · 18/05/2021 13:57

There's no empathy, and I really hope that none of the people who've posted anti-trans comments have a trans child/person in their family. That would be an utterly miserable child/person. The ignorance and bigotry demonstrated thus far by anti-trans posters is a really sad reflection of the MN community

PPs have noted that MN is notoriously anti-transgender. The threads I've read containing posts about trans people have certainly supported that view and reputation

The anti-trans views expressed so regularly on MN are the reasons why so many trans people don't want to go out at all

Trans ally here, too

You just claim transphobia to shut people up, whilst giving no examples or counter arguments to women’s very real concerns. Why not engage with the very real issues women have raised here? Why not tell us how it can all be resolved? Or do you think it’s a woman’s job to shut up and move over, no questions asked?

Everything is transphobic these days, no one cares if you call them a transphobe, it’s lost all meaning.

MmeLaraque · 18/05/2021 13:57

@Hoppinggreen:

Yes, I am old and bolshy enough to challenge anyone who makes me feel uncomfortable in a place they shouldn’t be.

Really? So who have you decided is in a place they shouldn't be? That comment of yours is straight out of the Crow laws.

16 year old DD not so much, so my concern is for her and her generation- despite the fact that wanting to protect them means they think i am a Transphobe

Your comments there make you sound like a transphobe. I wonder if your daughter has trans friends she prefers to protect against your bigotry and vitriol. Poor kid.

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 18/05/2021 13:58

Why is sex and gender being conflated everywhere?

Surely this whole trans 'movement' can only be considered progressive if sex and gender are considered to be completely separate things. If you conflate the two, then you are just reinforcing sex stereotypes, which are backwards, limiting and awful!

As a female I feel completely comfortable with trans men in my sex segregated spaces. I welcome them and wholeheartedly embrace their gender diversity within the female sex.

But trans women trying to bully their way into female spaces and sports - well that's just male entitlement and male privilege all at play.

GlassBoxSpectacular · 18/05/2021 13:58

@Claire4567

Name change fail OP? *@GuidonianHand*
Oh, I missed that before it was zapped Sad

So did the OP return to raise awareness of homophobia & biphobia, then?

Atalune · 18/05/2021 13:58

@MaxNormal

To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you

The experience of women, right there.

Preach!
GreyhoundG1rl · 18/05/2021 13:58

[quote MmeLaraque]@Hoppinggreen:

Yes, I am old and bolshy enough to challenge anyone who makes me feel uncomfortable in a place they shouldn’t be.

Really? So who have you decided is in a place they shouldn't be? That comment of yours is straight out of the Crow laws.

16 year old DD not so much, so my concern is for her and her generation- despite the fact that wanting to protect them means they think i am a Transphobe

Your comments there make you sound like a transphobe. I wonder if your daughter has trans friends she prefers to protect against your bigotry and vitriol. Poor kid.[/quote]
Biscuit. Ffs!

Rejoiningperson · 18/05/2021 13:59

@Ereshkigalangcleg okay thanks for that.

I honestly don’t understand the OPs post at all. I have no idea why she equates trans issues with eradicating single sex toilets.

I have no idea they that would warrant a whole essay.

Surely there are real issues out there for trans people, like being beaten up, that are terrible and we can all get behind to help support and protect.

But need a toilet? Ask for a third one if you don’t want to use single sex male/female. Need a changing space? Ask for a third one. Etc.

Really can’t see all this venem with all these posters saying so many people are transphobic or whatever because of protecting single sex toilets. Do we live in the same world?! What is going on!

YetAnotherSpartacus · 18/05/2021 13:59

Did anyone get a screenshot of @GuidonianHand before it got deleted?

Nah - but it was something about how the post was sent by a trans friend and so that was why it was about trans.

GlassBoxSpectacular · 18/05/2021 14:00

The ignorance and bigotry demonstrated thus far by anti-trans posters is a really sad reflection of the MN community

I must have missed the ignorance and bigotry.

Could you quote some of it, to get me up to speed?

Thanks Smile

Theluggage15 · 18/05/2021 14:00

I couldn’t be bothered to read all of the patronising essay but no, women will not be moving aside to help men feel better. I’ve also flicked through the thread and seen a couple of people saying trans people are discriminated against, but haven’t seen anyone explaining how they’re discriminated against.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 18/05/2021 14:00

No, there was still no mention of us pesky L,G and Bs in @GuidonianHand's post.

Erikrie · 18/05/2021 14:01

It isn't the body part between your legs that makes a person a danger to society

No. It's what the person who has that particular body part decides to do with it. The body part in itself isn't dangerous as long as the owner keeps that under control. A huge percentage of women are assaulted by owners of that body part . That particular body part seems to get off on doing that to women.

Note: It's only biological males who have that body part.

Naunet · 18/05/2021 14:01

Your comments there make you sound like a transphobe. I wonder if your daughter has trans friends she prefers to protect against your bigotry and vitriol. Poor kid

Please do enlighten me, what is transphobic about women wanting to keep the single sex spaces they fought hard to have?

TedImgoingmad · 18/05/2021 14:02

@Imasoulman

I was shocked at the inference that Trans people are mentally disabled, you know that is what I meant. You are simply twisting things to suit your narrative.

I am a 53 year old Trans woman so trying to call me out as transphobic is hilarious.

Yes there are many men who dress and present as women for many varied reasons, but they are not all transgender. You can split hairs and argue all day about labels but that's just distracting.

Just to be clear, I absolutely support safe single sex spaces, I would like to see more unisex spaces along side them but absolutely not instead of.
I am totally against trans women competing in women's sport.

Sorry if I don't fit your pre conceived ideas.

Miranda Yardley, Rose of Dawn, Debbie Hayton are all post OP trans women who are regularly accused of transphobia and called Truscum by TRAs. Being trans yourself does not exempt you from the transphobia label. You said that transpeople don't flip flop back and forth between genders. That is patently untrue. As pp have said, Philip/ Pip Bunce and Eddie Izzard are just two high profile examples of people who pick and choose the days they identify as male or female.
GlassBoxSpectacular · 18/05/2021 14:04

@YetAnotherSpartacus

Did anyone get a screenshot of @GuidonianHand before it got deleted?

Nah - but it was something about how the post was sent by a trans friend and so that was why it was about trans.

I wonder why the OP's friend didn't post their views themself, rather than have the OP post on their behalf? Confused

I'm standing by my 'screenshot-farming' theory.

So obedient, the handmaidens. Hmm

lifeturnsonadime · 18/05/2021 14:04

There's no empathy, and I really hope that none of the people who've posted anti-trans comments have a trans child/person in their family. That would be an utterly miserable child/person. The ignorance and bigotry demonstrated thus far by anti-trans posters is a really sad reflection of the MN community

Why is it necessary to trample over the rights of women and girls in order to 'be kind' to trans kids?

Atalune · 18/05/2021 14:05

@Sorka

I didn’t read your entire waffley essay. Here’s some key points for you:
  • Sex segregated facilities (toilets, jails, changing rooms) exist for reasons of privacy, dignity and for women’s safety. Yes that’s right women. We need sex segregated spaces for safety. From men. Not all men no, but some men.
  • Sex segregated sports exist for reasons of fairness. Men are on the whole bigger, faster and stronger than women. That’s why we have sex segregated sports. If you think people born male should get to play women’s sports, ask yourself why we have sex segregated sports in the first place. Then take a look of that photo of the person in New Zealand who was mediocre at men’s sports and is now winning gold at women’s weightlifting. The photo of that person with two crestfallen women of colour whose hard fought for 1st and 2nd place have been stolen from them says everything.

I don’t care how your friend feels about him or herself. I do care about women’s rights and protections being trampled on and our very existence being erased.

I care very much that we can’t even safely speak about our beliefs that women are people born with female reproductive organs who go through a very different physical, cultural and social experience to men. See for example the law student in danger of being thrown of her course and her career destroyed before it’s even begun because she dared to say she believes women are people born with female reproductive organs.

Have you felt the need to lecture any men today? Have you told any men that some men have vaginas lately? Have you come up with any terms to lesson their biological identity like ‘chest-feeding’ for women? Are prostate exams still allowed to be advertised as something aimed at men? Or people with prostates? Which is still more meaningful than people with cervixes, which many women will not recognise includes them.

I love this post.

Where is the like button!!!

Sophoclesthefox · 18/05/2021 14:05

Come on, OP, we know you’re reading after the name change fail Grin

What do you make of the direction that the threads gone in?

GlassBoxSpectacular · 18/05/2021 14:07

@youvegottenminuteslynn

No, there was still no mention of us pesky L,G and Bs in *@GuidonianHand*'s post.
Oh well, I guess the OP won't be popping back, under any of her names, to engage with the questions raised by the goady verbal diarrhoea she obediently posted in her role as TRA messaging service.
SunflowersAndLavender · 18/05/2021 14:08

Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear

Well yes - that's generally the aim for the rest of us too. Was it really necessary to point out the obvious in such unpleasantly graphic terms?

Fimofriend · 18/05/2021 14:10

Are we supposed to pretend that there have NOT been a lot of transwomen who have bragged about masturbating in female public toilets getting off specifically because they know women were outside and could hear tgem and become uncomfortable? Shall we pretend no transwoman gas been ogling female preteens and trying to discuss very intimate issues with perfect strangers in the public toilets for their own sexual gratification? Shall we also pretend that no transwoman has ever slid a phone under the partition to film a woman peeing? Sure! Lets just lie and say that it never happened. It is not like women and girls deserve to be safe. We are just utilities to be used for men's gratification. How dare anyone claim otherwise?

Whythesadface · 18/05/2021 14:11

It's one thing to dress like a female and try to take our spaces, because they think that makes it OK.
But when they started saying that Lesbians had to sleep with them, that was the point that Stonewall needed to STEP UP and protect the Lesbians. Instead they just said it's a female penis, and that TWAW was spouted. Everyone is not the same, it's getting to be that TW are going to be the reason they split the LBG community, and break away sections decide to come down on the side of penis and no penis.