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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Sophoclesthefox · 18/05/2021 12:46

@Tibtom

it could be argued that Trans people have mental health issues and are therefore disabled

People are disabled by mental health issues, including transgender peoplwe. We know that transitioning increases risk of suicide nine-fold compared (as opposed to children who identify as trans who are at no more risk of suicide than others referred to camhs) which would suggest mental health is an issue. But 'mental disability' has a completely different meaning - it refers to IQ not mental health (generally referred to as learning disability). Though your disgust at this term doesn't reckect well on your attitude to either mental health or learning disability.

I was trying to find a way to phrase this, and you’ve done it beautifully.

The disgust at the idea of mental ill health or disability is quite palpable.

As to “not flipping backward and forward”, presumably that disqualifies Eddie Izzard, with Eddie’s boy mode and girl mode from being trans, which I’m sure Eddie will find quite invalidating. Transphobic, even.

viques · 18/05/2021 12:46

@midgedude

I have a friend called Kevin He isn't trans He told me he would feel safer in the ladies as he would be less at risk of being attacked for being called Kevin

Is that reasonable ?

After all men are at significant risk of harm from other men

You could tell him to take off the big flashing badge that reads “Hello, my name is Kevin”

That might help.

justasking111 · 18/05/2021 12:47

@GreyhoundG1rl we had a team going around the schools to study toilets, they decided that there would be boys, girls, and anyone else were welcome to use the disabled one. Our schools are small in mostly rural areas the budget was not there to knock the buildings about. Everyone was happy.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 12:47

Though your disgust at this term doesn't reckect well on your attitude to either mental health or learning disability.

Quite.

GreyhoundG1rl · 18/05/2021 12:47

Regarding the toilets in my opinion they should all be private and gender neutral, this way there's no exclusion and it's nicer for everyone
What the fuck?

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 18/05/2021 12:47

People aren’t opposed to trans people using the toilet of the opposites sex. They’re opposed to anyone using the toilet of the opposite sex.
and
a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you" -- The experience of women, right there.

Yes and yes. That's just the first two comments, telling more truth than the entire long OP.

HermioneWeasley · 18/05/2021 12:47

Just last week I posted on here a link to a Twitter thread of multiple highly graphic examples of TW filming themselves wanking in women’s toilets, so the “we just want to pee” doesn’t seem very plausible. Then you add in actual assaults by TW in women’s spaces and the fact that mixed sexual spaces are much less safe for women and girls, and I’ll be telling you to take your emotional blackmail elsewhere.

Male violence against other males is not women’s problem to solve. We are not human shields or default support humans

Blankspace101 · 18/05/2021 12:48

Why won’t people understand there is no transphobia on MN? We have moderators who delete all the offensive posts.

Lonel · 18/05/2021 12:49

But they are not Trans, transgender people don't flip back and forth.
Well can you give a definition that fits then because Stonewall, which lobbies may institutions and government depts, would seem to include them under their "trans umbrella"?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 12:49

You could tell him to take off the big flashing badge that reads “Hello, my name is Kevin”

Yes, very funny. But the point stands. What other vulnerable groups of males should women be human shields for? Gay men? Elderly men? Teenage boys?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 18/05/2021 12:50

@ThewaterlilliesofGiverny

Many years ago my friend told me her trans friend felt safer using the women’s toilets (which after all are in locked door cubicles) rather than the gents, in case they got attacked for being trans.

Seems reasonable to me.

Think it through logically

Biological females want spaces separate from biological males because some biological males are a danger to them.

Trans women (who are biological males and may have had no surgery) want spaces separate from biological males because some biological males are a danger to them.

So whose needs are being respected by allowing a class of biological males (however they identify) into a space for biological females.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 12:50

Just last week I posted on here a link to a Twitter thread of multiple highly graphic examples of TW filming themselves wanking in women’s toilets, so the “we just want to pee” doesn’t seem very plausible.

I think someone posted the link earlier on this thread.

TheIncredibleBookEatingManchot · 18/05/2021 12:54

@financialrecovery

Also we aren't discussing women's rights. She was discussing trans.

It's like discussing racism and saying "what about white people?"

Well yes but this isn't the experience we're discussing. Nobody is saying they aren't important and don't experience problems. But the focus needs to be on solely trans problems at times.

But this is the feminist board.

A place specially designated to discuss women's rights. The whole purpose of this board is to centre women's rights.

Why post here if you don't want to discuss women's rights? There are many other places on the internet where trans issues can be discussed without centering women if that's what the OP wants.

pennylane83 · 18/05/2021 12:54

Many women would not feel safe using public toilets if men are allowed free access. This would lead to women not going out. We can't tell is a person is a transwoman or a predatory male

You also can't tell if a women has a predilcition to violence but I'm guessing that doesn't stop you from using the women's toilets.

It isn't the body part between your legs that makes a person a danger to society.

womanity · 18/05/2021 12:54

OP,
Males in women’s toilets make me uncomfortable. There. I’ve told you now.

BrumBoo · 18/05/2021 12:55

It isn't the body part between your legs that makes a person a danger to society.

@pennylane83 then how do you explain how most violent crimes are committed by those born with a penis?

Sixsillysausagessizzlinginapan · 18/05/2021 12:56

There are no issues about trans people using toilets.
The issue is biological males with penises trying to force their way into single sex female spaces. Like female only toilet stalls.

How can you not realise how dangerous it would be for women to share public toilets or changing rooms with men?!

How can you not realise that if these things are allowed, sexual predators will take this opportunity to rape, intimidate or assault women and young girls!?

The only solution to this is completely sealed individual toilets or changing rooms, which are vastly more expensive to install.

Perhaps rather than eroding women's sex based rights, which still aren't equal to mens, you could campaign for your own rights, without putting us in danger.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 12:56

A place specially designated to discuss women's rights. The whole purpose of this board is to centre women's rights.

To be fair this thread is in AIBU not FWR.

Naunet · 18/05/2021 12:56

You also can't tell if a women has a predilcition to violence but I'm guessing that doesn't stop you from using the women's toilets

It isn't the body part between your legs that makes a person a danger to society

Statistics drastically disagree with you.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 18/05/2021 12:56

@GreyhoundG1rl

Regarding the toilets in my opinion they should all be private and gender neutral, this way there's no exclusion and it's nicer for everyone What the fuck?
I know. 'Nice' can get tae fuck.
VanGoghsDog · 18/05/2021 12:57

@pennylane83

Many women would not feel safe using public toilets if men are allowed free access. This would lead to women not going out. We can't tell is a person is a transwoman or a predatory male

You also can't tell if a women has a predilcition to violence but I'm guessing that doesn't stop you from using the women's toilets.

It isn't the body part between your legs that makes a person a danger to society.

It shouldn't be, you're right. But sadly crime statistics would prove you wrong there.
Lonel · 18/05/2021 12:57

It isn't the body part between your legs that makes a person a danger to society.

Are you for real? Male violence on women is far more prevalent than vice versa. Males are much stronger than females. Only males can rape. Stop pretending sex doesn't matter.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/05/2021 12:57

Statistics drastically disagree with you.

I know, how can people come out with this nonsense?

lifeturnsonadime · 18/05/2021 12:57

It isn't the body part between your legs that makes a person a danger to society.

How strange, crime stats do NOT seem to support this assertion.

However now people with penises are being recorded as women when they commit crimes on the basis of self ID these stats may be skewed in the future.

happinessischocolate · 18/05/2021 12:57

@pennylane83

Many women would not feel safe using public toilets if men are allowed free access. This would lead to women not going out. We can't tell is a person is a transwoman or a predatory male

You also can't tell if a women has a predilcition to violence but I'm guessing that doesn't stop you from using the women's toilets.

It isn't the body part between your legs that makes a person a danger to society.

If a woman attacks me I have a fair chance of fighting her off, we're both women. If a man attacks me chances are he'll be stronger than me even if he's not particularly bigger than me.