Discussing Palestinian Oppression part 2

[Faffandahalf]

Just starting another thread as the other one is full.

Please keep talking about Palestinian occupation and oppression.

Please follow Palestinian support groups like Friends of Al Aqsa and Mohammed el Kurd (an amazing Sheikh Jarrah citizen) on Twitter and Insta to get info from the ground. This will take you to other sources of infor coming out of Palestine.

Please keep Palestine part of the conversation and on social media so it’s not forgotten about.

Supporting Palestine is not anti Semitic
Criticising Israel is not anti Semitic.

As an aside I have not once seen the previous thread in active after page 1.
So MN have let the thread stand after numerous complaints of censorship but still odd that it never came up as active.

@DeepThinkingGirl First of all, it’s anti-semitism, not ‘semetism’. If you’re going to post offensively about it, at least spell it correctly.

And then, if you are unwilling to label Hamas as anti-Semites, I’m afraid this conversation is over.

But in the meantime, statements about Israelis causing the ‘ripple effect’ leading to more anti-semitism is anti-semitism plain and simple. It is blaming Jews for their own oppression.

@DeepThinkingGirl I have reported your previous post.

You don't get to define what antisemitism is, and invent some new names for it. There is a long standing consensus on what antisemitism is which is formed by Jewish community and other members of the public and trying to invent some new names for some of the things that fall under this umbrella is just as offensive as trying to redefine what constitutes rape for example.

I sincerely hope you will realise how insensitive it sounds.

Not sure whether this is allowed, but a friend is giving away free nights at her Airbnb in exchange for raising funds for medical aid in Palestine

www.instagram.com/p/CO7219KF6EO/?igshid=1x35892a5ej2e

Regardless of people's opinions on what is happening there, a lot of innocent civilians, many of them children, are in critical need of medical assistance right now

@DeepThinkingGirl And here is the widely accepted IHRA definition of anti-Semitism. We’re all good with this definition, thanks, as BFrazzled says above - no need for a new one from you.

www.holocaustremembrance.com/working-definition-antisemitism

This is disgusting, in fact it is too disgusting and damaging to the Palestinian cause as well as the Jewish communities.. that I honestly have my doubts about who organized this

Is that what bothers you? That it damages the cause?

They have travelled from the North of England. In BMWs, with megaphones hanging out of the side windows, inciting the "rape" of Jewish "daughters" in North London.

This is disgusting, in fact it is too disgusting and damaging to the Palestinian cause as well as the Jewish communities.. that I honestly have my doubts about who organized this. *
Wait I missed this part.
Wait so who do you think organized this?
The Zionists?

@joanneg36
Here is my response- The Israeli govt should admit that firing at the mosque whilst people were praying was wrong, and pledge to stop expansion of settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. All this will refreshingly for everyone mean that they take accountability rather than make us all think we're going nuts and that we, the Palestinians made it all up.

Fuck Hamas- I'm Palestinian, I say the Israeli govt should not give them ammunition- this after all was a reaction from Hamas; the rockets fired were a reaction.

Flaxmeadow

What are you trying to prove?

That I’m Currently quite distressed about the deaths of children happening right now who have no police to protect them or deal with any danger they face, that it’s emotionally at the forefront of my mind that I’m annoyed at anything hindering having their voices heard??

While still being able to acknowledge that these mob need to be dealt with the no Jewish woman should face any threat of rape ..?

Is it offensive to make your human rights equal to my own people ?

But in the meantime, statements about Israelis causing the ‘ripple effect’ leading to more anti-semitism is anti-semitism plain and simple. It is blaming Jews for their own oppression.

@joanneg36- Curious about this, what is the Palestinian equivalent of this? only asking as for as long as I recall, Palestinians have always been blamed for their own oppression too. No one should be, but I'm just saying it sounds v familiar to me.

@Flaxmeadow

This is disgusting, in fact it is too disgusting and damaging to the Palestinian cause as well as the Jewish communities.. that I honestly have my doubts about who organized this

Is that what bothers you? That it damages the cause?

They have travelled from the North of England. In BMWs, with megaphones hanging out of the side windows, inciting the "rape" of Jewish "daughters" in North London.

That is abhorrent and inexcusable but you’re acting like this something exclusive to the Palestinian cause. What about all the woman and children raped by IDF soldiers? Who do they call, the police? There is nothing they can do, and the men laugh and joke about it online with no consequences whatsoever.

There are many that are angry that Palestinian women and children are constantly harmed without consequence, and some will react extremely with condemnation from their own - two wrongs never make a right - but please stop minimising and diverting away from what is happening to Palestinians due to the reactions of some. All hate crimes are awful, but why are so many up in arms about idiot men shouting vile stuff out of car windows when there is a literal genocide happening and many try to find excuses for it?

At every turn on this thread and the last there is denial of oppression or of any wrongdoing by the Israelis. They are stopping so low as to pick up on typos.

And the irony of referring to human rights where the the current Israeli government is in breach of UN resolutions, is condemned by many human rights charities and has zero respect for Palestinian lives.

The only thing that the pro-Israelis are trying to do is shut down the conversation. Any protest is met with shrieks of “anti-semitism”. Blatant islamophobia is being disguised by such despicable accusations. They pro-Israelis seek to control the narrative - exactly what they are attempting on this thread and in Gaza itself by destroying media outlets - Rather than recognise that both sides, hatred put aside, must negotiate if progress is to be made.

I find the racism and Islamophobic comments from several posters here absolutely disgusting. I hope all comments are left up however so people reading can see what the Palestinians are up against.

@DeepThinkingGirl

I personally do take issue with what anti semitism means- I take it as the hatred of jewish people. It is a definition that the jewish community agreed upon and I respect that.

My main issue is the inability to criticise the govt without being called anti semitic. I do not conflate both. I believe it is just and right to criticise the govt and Netanyahu in particular and will continue to do so until they vote someone worthy in.

I'm Palestinian and have learned to discuss the politics in the region by explicitly mentioning either the state, which means govt (although people forget that and conflate that with the citizens of Israel), explicitly mentioning the govt, or Netanyahu, who for donkeys years has given me reason to hate him.

The zionist movement that's backed by the Christian fundamentalists concerns me. I want a one state binational solution. The Jews belong, ad so do the Palestinians. I hope and dream to live side by side as equals. No discrimination, no apartheid. That's it

www.ifnotnowmovement.org/

@JustFedUpOfThis - the reason I picked up on that typo was because the poster was quite clearly trying to redefine anti-semitism in a deeply offensive way and she couldn’t even spell it.

At every stage, in every post I’ve written here, I’ve recognised the wrong on both sides here. But unfortunately your claim that there is no anti-semitism on the thread is somewhat undermined by the fact that the post above you talks about the IDF raping children.

@JustFedUpOfThis - the reason I picked up on that typo was because the poster was quite clearly trying to redefine anti-semitism in a deeply offensive way and she couldn’t even spell it.

Of you and all the pro Israelis weren’t desperately looking to be offended throughout this thread then I would’ve tried to explain why I meant no offense.

But I guess, I shall let you enjoy your victory.

And go back to discuss the plight of the children being murdered right now.

What on earth is anti-Semitic about that? Are all IDF soldiers Jewish? This isn’t anything new, the IDF abuse their position of power on a daily basis. An incredibly quick google can provide you with many sources of child sexual abuse and rape enquiries.

This is the most recent case but they date back decades:

www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_interrogator_sexually_assaults_palestinian_child_detainee

I did not claim there was no anti-Semitism on this thread. I said that anti-semitism was being thrown around unfairly to shut down discussions. It is also being used to disguise racist statements such as “let’s encourage the Gazans to move to Europe” - change Gazans to Israeli Jews and that becomes a very, very anti-Semitic statement.

I have been extremely careful to avoid any generalising and not make up facts - or post random tweets which allegedly support a narrative. In every debate of today (ie beyond Israel Palestine this is an increasingly common occurrence and it is having terrible results such as Brexit). I have not read anything about IDF raping Palestinians so unless a reliable source can be found supporting such claims then yes, it is inflammatory anti-semitism.

Literally nowhere have I said I am ‘pro-Israeli’. Nor in fact have I anywhere said I am Jewish but somehow you sniffed me out and decided I must be in your earlier post about ‘your people’.

Far from ‘looking for reasons to be offended’ I’ve spent today watching in utter horror as cars drive around about 2 miles from where I live shouting about Jews raping children. Plus, I’ve just had a chat with both my kids about how to deal with any anti-semitism they might encounter at school tomorrow.

But yeah, I’m really enjoying this - so thanks for the part you’ve played.

I'm glad to see that dreadful anti-Semitic rhetoric has been deleted by MNHQ.

Hahahaha oh lol lol lol let’s just have all the Palestinians be refugees in the UK. What a lark it will be.

Posters who are being so glib and hilarious with this sarcastic suggestion are being so utterly vile and insensitive.

Children are dying and you think posting unhelpful BS like this is what...a joke?

Of course the Palestinians aren’t going to resettle in the bloody UK

1. Why the fuck should they? They have a home and it’s been stolen from them and continues to be stolen. Homes are literally snatched away ie Sheikh Jarrah
2. Well duh the UK govt isn’t exactly about to welcome them all in are they???

So what even is the fucking point of these stupid pointless posts that seem to be making fun out of the ethnic cleansing and oppression of human beings?

Faffandahalf

Hahahaha oh lol lol lol let’s just have all the Palestinians be refugees in the UK. What a lark it will be.

Posters who are being so glib and hilarious with this sarcastic suggestion are being so utterly vile and insensitive.

Children are dying and you think posting unhelpful BS like this is what...a joke?

Of course the Palestinians aren’t going to resettle in the bloody UK

*1. Why the fuck should they? They have a home and it’s been stolen from them and continues to be stolen. Homes are literally snatched away ie Sheikh Jarrah

1. Well duh the UK govt isn’t exactly about to welcome them all in are they???*

So what even is the fucking point of these stupid pointless posts that seem to be making fun out of the ethnic cleansing and oppression of human beings?

But we Palestinians, aren’t looking to be offended. Despite it being a salt rubbed on the very open bleeding wound right now.

Because we are too concerned to find a solution for human rights and justice.

THAT, is too important to us than to exploit peoples guilt and try to monopolise peoples emotions to leave absolutely no room for discussion on the human rights of others.

@Faffandahalf I feel for you and @DeepThinkingGirl

The fact that pro-Israeli posters can make disingenuous statements about how much better it would be for Palestinians to move somewhere safer. Laugh and joke as you say. It’s sickening.

I have resisted reporting these extremely racist statements as I think this display of support for ethnic cleansing needs to be seen.

I also think the line of “if you’re not living it then don’t comment” is also very worrying. What if the Nazis had tried to apply that argument when the rest of the world was criticising them? Should we just have left the Nazis to it and believed all the propaganda they put out? We didn’t - we fought against it thank goodness. Or Bosnia - should we have said “their country, their business”? And we have ignored it in the past and it has resulted in huge suffering eg Pol Pot.

It is entirely appropriate to pull up any government on human rights abuses on a group of people who have virtually nothing. It doesn’t matter what religions are involved, oppression needs to be highlighted and challenged.

So what even is the fucking point of these stupid pointless posts that seem to be making fun out of the ethnic cleansing and oppression of human beings?

Honestly? It’s not in the personal best interests of many to be concerned about situations like the one happening in Palestine, so they don’t want others to be either otherwise it makes them feel guilty. Make light of it and divert the conversation, time and time again. I’ve seen this happen in a few circles, I do try to at least understand their viewpoints sometimes but just... no. I cannot and will never understand the supporters of apartheid states.

Thanks @Faffandahalf for starting a new thread.

What’s happening in Palestine is beyond shocking and the international community needs to do much, much more to help.

Please consider donating to organisations such as Medical Aid for Palestinians - www.map.org.uk/ - to help Palestinians.

Arrests have been over the vile Finchley anti-Semitic and misogynistic abuse incident.