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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Discussing Palestinian Oppression part 2

999 replies

Faffandahalf · 16/05/2021 09:28

Just starting another thread as the other one is full.

Please keep talking about Palestinian occupation and oppression.

Please follow Palestinian support groups like Friends of Al Aqsa and Mohammed el Kurd (an amazing Sheikh Jarrah citizen) on Twitter and Insta to get info from the ground. This will take you to other sources of infor coming out of Palestine.

Please keep Palestine part of the conversation and on social media so it’s not forgotten about.

Supporting Palestine is not anti Semitic
Criticising Israel is not anti Semitic.

As an aside I have not once seen the previous thread in active after page 1.
So MN have let the thread stand after numerous complaints of censorship but still odd that it never came up as active.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
SofiaMichelle · 16/05/2021 21:17

Four men arrested in anti-Semitism video investigation www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57137151

Adventureswith · 16/05/2021 21:18

‘ Four men arrested in anti-Semitism video investigation www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57137151’

Good, we have hate crime legislation for a reason.

Jente · 16/05/2021 21:27

Good, well deserved.

Thewinterofdiscontent · 16/05/2021 21:29

*But in the meantime, statements about Israelis causing the ‘ripple effect’ leading to more anti-semitism is anti-semitism plain and simple. It is blaming Jews for their own oppression.

But in this case Israelis aren’t oppressed. They are they the oppressive force.
I don’t deny Jews get racist abuse. So do black people who have also suffered a huge history of disgusting treatment. The Uighur are clearly suffering massive racial abuse in Chinese internment camps.
The Israel needs to be part of the solution for the future not the past.
.

CounsellorTroi · 16/05/2021 21:29

[quote SofiaMichelle]Four men arrested in anti-Semitism video investigation www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57137151[/quote]
Good.

piddocktrumperiness · 16/05/2021 21:41

This is from 7 yrs ago but interesting to hear a former IDF sergeant's view and lived experience.
He categorically stated that yes, the Palestinians are oppressed and that the tactics by the IDF are deliberately put in place to keep them oppressed

StoneofDestiny · 16/05/2021 21:45

SofiaMichelle*
There's a huge problem with anti-semitism and anti-Israeli sentiment in the left-wing community - see Labour's issues for a start - and it doesn't come much more left than MN

Well - looking forward to hearing you protest evenly about the fact we have a Prime Minister who has openly made racist comments about black people.

DeepThinkingGirl · 16/05/2021 21:45

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4246745-Im-a-scared-British-Jew

Sad to know that Jews in the U.K. are feeling threatened. Glad that the U.K. is acting swiftly to clamp down on any hate crimes and anti semitism.

And I would like to clarify, as a British Muslim of palestinian heritage, the Muslim community will be very quick and swift to condemn this. And all of us will right now, including myself, be calling on all our public figures to condemn any such violations of human rights in the name of justice or religion or anything.

Because human rights violations are everyone’s concern

beethecrackon24995 · 16/05/2021 21:48

max typical MN tactic to completely twist what someone has said when you don't like what they said.i didn't say/suggest that all pro palastine people were antisemetic. i was making a point aimed at the people who are pro palastine here on MN who regularly go on about how you can't criticise israel without being called an antisemite. my comment was aimed at them. i know not everyone who is in support of palastine is an antisemite. don't put words into my mouth. these same people spout how there is no connection between being supportive of palastine and hating jews. my point was that the men driving down finchley cleary thought there was....

StoneofDestiny · 16/05/2021 21:56

The overall death toll in Gaza now stands at 188 people, including 55 children and 33 women, with 1,230 injured

StoneofDestiny · 16/05/2021 22:04

Human Rights Watch

Media reports quoted Netanyahu in translation as telling Israeli Border Police officers deployed there and elsewhere in Israel to maintain order, “We hear talk of apprehension over [future] commissions of inquiry, investigations, inspections – we will give you all the tools to protect yourself and the citizens of Israel,” adding, “You have our full backing, do not be afraid.”

“Netanyahu’s statement that the Israeli Border Police, who have a track record of abusive policing, should ‘not be afraid’ of investigations effectively invites them to use excessive force,” said Eric Goldstein, acting Middle East director at Human Rights Watch.

"If the Biden administration is serious about centering its foreign policy on human rights, the US, as well as other Israeli allies like the UK and France, should demand that Israeli security forces protect everyone’s rights and be held accountable when they don’t.”

Adventureswith · 16/05/2021 22:18

BBC news have just shown footage of a little girl who’s mother, brothers and sisters were all killed by Israeli bombs. It’s heartbreaking. Her father also survived, the child looks absolutely traumatised.

StoneofDestiny · 16/05/2021 22:23

The overwhelming pro Palestinian demonstrations in the UK have been peaceful and passed without incident. There were many thousands taking part. Glad the 4 idiots were arrested for anti Semitic abuse - they do nothing but discredit their cause.

Ikeasucks · 16/05/2021 22:26

@JustFedUpOfThis
*The only thing that the pro-Israelis are trying to do is shut down the conversation. Any protest is met with shrieks of “anti-semitism”. Blatant islamophobia is being disguised by such despicable accusations. They pro-Israelis seek to control the narrative - exactly what they are attempting on this thread and in Gaza itself by destroying media outlets - Rather than recognise that both sides, hatred put aside, must negotiate if progress is to be made.

I find the racism and Islamophobic comments from several posters here absolutely disgusting. I hope all comments are left up however so people reading can see what the Palestinians are up against.*

  • The fact that pro-Israeli posters can make disingenuous statements about how much better it would be for Palestinians to move somewhere safer. Laugh and joke as you say. It’s sickening.

I have resisted reporting these extremely racist statements as I think this display of support for ethnic cleansing needs to be seen*

You are ridiculously so self unaware and a hypocrite. I can almost feel the spit on my face from here

Jente · 16/05/2021 22:39

@HRVY I've got a lot of time for MAP. Dr Pauline Cutting who helped set them up wrote a book about the Sabra and Shatilla massacres and it still haunts me 30 years on.

DeepThinkingGirl · 16/05/2021 22:39

This is from 7 yrs ago but interesting to hear a former IDF sergeant's view and lived experience.
He categorically stated that yes, the Palestinians are oppressed and that the tactics by the IDF are deliberately put in place to keep them oppressed

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXiMyQkCPfI

This man is incredibly brave ! How inspiring.

StoneofDestiny · 16/05/2021 22:51

Palestinian writer Mohammed El-Kurd –whose family faces displacement – eloquently combatted “biased, inaccurate framing” in a recent interview with CNN. Immediately correcting the interviewer on her misleading language, El-Kurd said: “To start, it’s not really an eviction, it’s forced ethnic displacement. Because an eviction implies legal authority, while the Israeli occupation has no legitimate jurisdiction over the eastern parts of occupied Jerusalem under international law. It also implies the presence of a landlord, and certainly these Israeli settlers have not built our homes, they’re not our landlords, they don’t want our land. Thirdly, eviction does not imply the hundreds of heavily-armed police, army, and settlers colluding… and assaulting and arresting you if you resist.”

Another illuminating moment comes at the end of that interview, when El-Kurd rebutts the question of whether he supports “the violent protests that have erupted in solidarity” with Palestinians. He responds: “Do you support the violent dispossession of me and my family?”

StoneofDestiny · 16/05/2021 22:56

Donations, meanwhile, can help provide medical aid, food and clean water, and shelter for Palestinians when they need it most, as well as education for hundreds of thousands of refugee students. Funds can be donated via Medical Aid for Palestinians, Palestine Children’s Relief Fund, Muslim Aid, UNRWA’s Gaza Crisis Appeal, Islamic Relief, Human Appeal, and Muslim Relief’s Palestine Appeal.

If you can’t afford to make a donation or attend a demonstration in person, you can also write to your MP to call for political action. The #SaveSheikhJarrah campaign, for example, calls for action against the forcible eviction of Palestinian families that have been living in east Jerusalem for generations

iwantedfairies · 16/05/2021 23:11

How can people find peace and a way forward is what I'm wondering?

Wish there was someone who had a big enough standing on the world stage to help broker a way forward.

Awful situation.

Faffandahalf · 16/05/2021 23:20

Instagram and other social media outlets have been censoring and reducing the reach of pro Palestine posts.
Many instagrammers with followers in the thousands/hundreds of thousands report their numbers being down, stories not coming up on followers feeds, content being censored etc.
Worrying stuff as well as Israel bombing and destroying a media building.

Please continue to follow, like and share anything you see on social media to encourage a wider reach for information.

As always Mohammed El Kurd from Sheikh Jarrah is streaming content everyday from the ground.
Also on insta
@subhi.taha
@Naamoduk (British Jews against occupation)
@Jewish voice for Peace

OP posts:
smallgoon · 16/05/2021 23:49

@LadySilence

Israel and Palestine may be enemies but they're not equal enemies. It's like Man City playing a tiny village 5 a side team. I've spent time in Palestine and the suffering those people endure on a daily basis is horrendous. Water shut off, electricity shut off. Food blockades, shot at by gun boats for trying to fish far out enough at sea to actually catch anything. Destruction of property, burning of crops. People might not want to hear it but it's reality, and it's insane to not be able to talk about it for fear of being accused of antisemitism
Heartbreaking that this is the reality for many.
Faffandahalf · 17/05/2021 00:12

And yet the narrative is that Palestine is treated with respect and even generosity by the Israeli govt when that is patently not the case. People arguing about how well treated they are and that they are never denied access to anything.
How do people believe this propaganda when testimony from the people and footage makes its way out from there with all the truth?

OP posts:
Faffandahalf · 17/05/2021 00:14

Oh also MAP (medical aid for Palestine) if you want to donate
Along with save the children

OP posts:
Jente · 17/05/2021 01:30

No words

Discussing Palestinian Oppression part 2
anemona · 17/05/2021 04:13

A lot of antisemitism as expected on this thread, which was apparent was going to be the case from the OP.

A shame and a lost opportunity as there are lots of ways that compromise and understanding can be reached.

I personally start from the perspective that most Israelis and most Palestinians are decent normal people who want what we all want, to live in peace, with a home, a job, no fear of attack, enough food/money/healthcare etc

I also believe that the leaders on both sides are corrupt and violent and work in sync. It benefits them both politically to portray the other side as a terrible threat that they are taking a hardline stance on - Netanyahu was about to lose power and there were going to be elections on the Palestinian side too, and now, as a result of this, both sides' leaders will probably manage to cling on to power.

Hamas is guilty of using its own population as human shields, of teaching children to hate Israelis and paying adults to murder them, in accordance with its founding charter that states it aims at global genocide of all Jews, and of spending its vast billions of aid funds almost entirely on rockets, terror tunnels and high living for the leaders. It deprives its own population therefore of the things the aid money was intended for - hospitals, housing, infrastructure etc.

Meanwhile, Netanyahu props up his very wobbly parliamentary majority with increasingly extreme far right parties, meaning that to keep them on side it needs to encourage right-wing settlers and reduce Palestinian rights.

Both sides need better leaders, who care about their people and not their own power base. Only then will peace be feasible.

Divisive threads like this only serve to increase hostilities, not decrease them.