Discussing Palestinian Oppression part 2

[Faffandahalf]

Just starting another thread as the other one is full.

Please keep talking about Palestinian occupation and oppression.

Please follow Palestinian support groups like Friends of Al Aqsa and Mohammed el Kurd (an amazing Sheikh Jarrah citizen) on Twitter and Insta to get info from the ground. This will take you to other sources of infor coming out of Palestine.

Please keep Palestine part of the conversation and on social media so it’s not forgotten about.

Supporting Palestine is not anti Semitic
Criticising Israel is not anti Semitic.

As an aside I have not once seen the previous thread in active after page 1.
So MN have let the thread stand after numerous complaints of censorship but still odd that it never came up as active.

@GoingOnABarHunt

So you use those same critical thinking skills with this type of media manipulation?

www.inquisitr.com/1440802/photos-of-dead-syrian-children-used-as-propaganda-for-palestinian-plight-sparks-outrage/

@Faffandahalf

If you don’t want to be hated don’t do hateful things like ethnic cleansing

Reported.

You called me hateful and are now accusing me of personally committing ethnic cleansing.

I must have missed when I did that.

Would you like to provide some proof of that or stop posting wild lies about British Jewish posters???

So much deflection and smoke and mirrors on this thread. You ask does Israel not have the right to defend itself? It’s like asking does a bully not have a right to defend himself? Ask yourself why did he need to defend himself in the first place?

What should Israel do? They should stop confiscating land that doesn’t belong to them. They should stop beating and terrorising the Palestinian population. They should stop bombing captive populations, they should stop their raids and arrests of civilians. They should stop being greedy for more and more and more land. They should stop the farce that they are interested in peace when behind the scenes they continue illegal land grabs.

Maybe then there’s a chance for peace. Maybe then Hamas will not be wanted anymore by a population who have no means to defend themselves.

I’d also like to know how anyone else would respond to the aggression and destruction of their homes, their children’s homes (recognised by international bodies as well as many Israelis and former Israeli soldiers - it’s not something that’s up for dispute).

Would you march in Jerusalem. Would you post outraged tweets from your refugee camps. Would you lie down and take it. Would you hand over the keys to your house and emigrate so as not to aggravate tensions as some would have. How would you respond to what the israeli govt are doing?

And why is it the Israeli response is just defense, but the Palestinian response is labelled terrorism and not resistance?
Israeli actions: condemned by the international community, condemned by human rights organisations, condemned by many many of their own, israelis and Jews alike, and yet people come on here to say ‘I stand with Israel’. It makes me weep. I hope people are opening their eyes to this. We in the west cannot do much but we can join the BDS movement of bdsmovement.net/ of boycott, divestment and sanctions.

Anyone looking to understand this issue, please have some humanity and support the Palestinian people in any way you can. Put pressure on Israel by joining the BDS campaigns. Tweet/email your MPs.

Can we not have a discussion board for things like this? Would rather hide these topics.

@Faffandahalf
Contrary to what you might want, mumsnet is not a vehicle for your views with no alternative viewpoints allowed. The way forward is where views differ. Absolutely nobody here is ‘ gloating ‘ or in any way not concerned about civilian deaths.Similar to the link to The Psalm earlier in the thread, your phrasing here is demonising people.
@ posted earlier with some very good points that are inconvenient so I guess are being ignored.
Hamas are committed to the elimination of Jews. They are suspected to use civilians as shields. They are quite aware of the power of images. Let that sink in. The Israelis are currently governed by extremists also and their settlement activities are indefensible and inflammatory. All of that needs to be considered in any move forward .
A refusal to acknowledge complexity helps no one.and probably is the best way to ensure that nothing changes.
But you carry on...

An Israeli human rights group accused Israel of committing "war crimes" in the Gaza Strip on Saturday and demanded that the international community intervene.

"The international community must step in immediately and use its leverage to force Israel to change its policy, before it claims even more victims," B'Tselem said in a statement.

It said that since 2014, Israel "has not wreaked this level of destruction on the blockaded Gaza Strip," in reference to ongoing attacks on Gaza.

The group reiterated that Gaza is experiencing a humanitarian crisis because of a 14-year Israeli blockade imposed on the 2 million residents in Gaza.

Since Monday, the Israeli army has killed 145 Palestinians, including 41 children and 23 women, and caused injuries to 1,100 people in raids on Gaza.

Seventeen Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank by Israeli forces and settlers as Palestinians staged protests against Israeli violations in occupied East Jerusalem and attacks on Gaza.

Since April 13, clashes erupted across the occupied territories because of Israeli attacks and restrictions on Palestinians in East Jerusalem, Al-Aqsa Mosque and an Israeli court’s decision to evict 12 Palestinian families from their homes in favor of Israeli settlers.

@Faffandahalf

You’re the hateful one *@anemona* You’ve done nothing but attack people like DeepThinking who is herself Palestinian. You have continued to deflect and distract from the real world issues Happening right now not history from 70 years ago. You don’t criticise or acknowledge the ethnic cleansing that occurs through settlement Building and home demolishing and how it is this that leads to hate and anger.

Also a lie.

I have repeatedly stated I oppose Netanyahu and settlement-building.

Your turn now.

Let's hear you state categorically that you oppose all rocket attacks and suicide bombings etc against Israeli civilians.

[quote Faffandahalf]@anemona
Start your own thread about that.
This is just whataboutery and a way to deflect and shut down this conversation. Why would I start a thread about it? Why would I divert the conversation to that??

This thread is about Palestinian oppression even though you keep dragging it away to fit your own agenda.

You obviously have zero shits to give about the Palestinians. Why are you here? To gloat? Just admit they you don’t care about their ethnic cleansing and are happy for them to be wiped out of Israel and killed in the hundreds.[/quote]
I agree. I don’t understand why they are continuing to comment. It’s like they don’t want people to talk about it or something ...

Maybe they should start their own threads?

Can we not have a discussion board for things like this? Would rather hide these topics

Agreed. I'm actually struggling to understand why this thread hasn't been deleted. Considering the relatively harmless threads which have been removed in the past. Why is this one still standing when it's so full of hate.

Faffandahalf I wouldn’t engage with anemona anymore. The derailing is working.

I’ve noticed there is much more SM coverage. This is a real time war being seen by many. Most people know this is a David and Goliath situation.

@Diemme

Can we not have a discussion board for things like this? Would rather hide these topics

Agreed. I'm actually struggling to understand why this thread hasn't been deleted. Considering the relatively harmless threads which have been removed in the past. Why is this one still standing when it's so full of hate.

Yes I can see why some people find a real time war situation being unpalatable..

Human Rights Watch

(Jerusalem) – Israeli authorities are committing the crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. The finding is based on an overarching Israeli government policy to maintain the domination by Jewish Israelis over Palestinians and grave abuses committed against Palestinians living in the occupied territory, including East Jerusalem.

The 213-page report, “A Threshold Crossed: Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution,” examines Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. It presents the present-day reality of a single authority, the Israeli government, ruling primarily over the area between the Jordan River and Mediterranean Sea, populated by two groups of roughly equal size, and methodologically privileging Jewish Israelis while repressing Palestinians, most severely in the occupied territory.

“Prominent voices have warned for years that apartheid lurks just around the corner if the trajectory of Israel’s rule over Palestinians does not change,” said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. “This detailed study shows that Israeli authorities have already turned that corner and today are committing the crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution.”

The finding of apartheid and persecution does not change the legal status of the occupied territory, made up of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and Gaza, or the factual reality of occupation.

@anemona
Wtf are you talking about?
I’m taking about the Israeli govt not you personally. Stop being so obtuse. Of course I am not
Accusing you of ethnic cleansing. What a bizarre statement and a great way to try and get this thread deleted.
Report away.

@Frazzledfranny echo chambers never work. Information should be challenged

to be fair to @anemona, they did repeatedly condemn Netanyahu and settlements- I've read their posts.

Aside form one or 2 misunderstandings I hope, they also were not attacking someone for being Palestinian- I myself am Palestinian.

No Israeli citizen or Palestinian should be living in fear and so the bombing must stop. Innocent people are dying because of people in power and that is wrong and reprehensible.

What should Israel do? If I was in charge, I'd use proportionate force to attack Hamas. What is happening however from the Israeli side is excessive force . Offer a ceasefire- go back to the drawing board and rectify what was stirring trouble a couple of weeks ago.

Something has to be done about the blockade too. Gaza is suffering as is.

International community really has to have a think about whose interests they are really protecting because they are using Israelis and Palestinians as pawns here and that is unjust.

The Middle East is already destabilised thanks to the US predominately. Something has has to be done here to bring back hope and a chance for communities in war torn areas to recover, and to thrive.

Stop allying with Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Have a good word with Russia too and their relationship with Iran. The region is in a mess. But right now, innocent people are dying and the force used is disproportionate.

Yes I oppose bombing of any kind. Including Hamas actions.

Doesn’t mean I don’t understand where the anger and hate comes from. And doesn’t deflect from the continuous land grabbing and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians

Also in terms of the media a lot
Of what I posted won’t be in the BBC and the Guardian etc. Lots of protest reports are coming from people on the ground from places like Instagram and TikTok. A new wave of youth protestors and not often reported in mainstream media. You have to really look for some of that information.

@PollyPaintsFlowers, According to some here the UN is an antisemitic organisation are we to acknowledge them as impartial and therefore capable of verification when you like what they say and antisemitic when you dont.

Could you perhaps answer my question, is the stated aim of the Israeli government to destroy Palestine. From the outside it certainly looks that way.

[quote PollyPaintsFlowers]@Frazzledfranny echo chambers never work. Information should be challenged[/quote]
We can see it in real time. What’s to challenge?

This thread is a discussion on what’s happening in Palestine. We know what’s happening in Palestine and so do the international community- are you challenging the international communities or just stopping people from discussing it on MN?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_diplomacy_of_Israel

The propaganda is strong........

@Justnot

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_diplomacy_of_Israel

The propaganda is strong........

Here we go again.......

Kirlali your two posts are pure hateful antisemitism. Reported.

Personally I’d not report and let posts stand

@Frazzledfranny I'm not stopping anything being talked about. It's not me asking why certain posters are engaging. I think things should be talked about and challenged, that's how we avoid echo chambers and get the full picture

I also don't subscribe to black and white thinking, ie Israel bad, Palestinian territories good

In answer to an earlier question about whether I think Israel aims to destroy the Palestinian territories, with their superior weaponry and the international community not acting against them as previous commentators have complained about, if Israel wanted to destroy the Palestinian territories why haven't they? Whereas Hamas have it in their charter and are teaching their children from the age of 6 that they are going to destroy Israel