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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Discussing Palestinian Oppression part 2

999 replies

Faffandahalf · 16/05/2021 09:28

Just starting another thread as the other one is full.

Please keep talking about Palestinian occupation and oppression.

Please follow Palestinian support groups like Friends of Al Aqsa and Mohammed el Kurd (an amazing Sheikh Jarrah citizen) on Twitter and Insta to get info from the ground. This will take you to other sources of infor coming out of Palestine.

Please keep Palestine part of the conversation and on social media so it’s not forgotten about.

Supporting Palestine is not anti Semitic
Criticising Israel is not anti Semitic.

As an aside I have not once seen the previous thread in active after page 1.
So MN have let the thread stand after numerous complaints of censorship but still odd that it never came up as active.

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21
anemona · 18/05/2021 07:56

@GoingOnABarHunt

Now anybody who disagrees is likely part of a paid lobby....

Well, no, but potentially a student looking to make a few bob.

Reporting this post and any others accusing me and others of being a 'student looking for a few bob' ie a paid Israeli troll.

I have been on MN for 17 years, a decade of them under this email address.

Pretty impressive for someone who is a student, eh?

You can mainly find my posts on the Feminism Board.

Pretty good deep cover, eh?? Hmm

Accusing other posters of being paid Israeli trolls is a) antisemitic b) against MN rules and c) will be reported. Every time.

Frazzledfranny · 18/05/2021 07:58

joanneg36 how about a complete withdrawal of military presence. Give the roads back. Stop the suffocating. Get out of places they shouldn’t legally be? Stop the promotional ads for moving to places they shouldn’t be. Stop the subsidised living costs of people moving in to areas they shouldn’t be.

I’m pretty sure the attacks of Hamas will stop then.

They can’t keep using the excuse that because of retaliation they have the rights to do this.

joanneg36 · 18/05/2021 08:02

I agree with everything you say on the settlements @Frazzledfranny. As I’ve said previously on this thread, I support a two-state solution and very much don’t support further Israeli settlement. But if you think what Hamas wants is just the end of the things above, you’re truly deluded.

Oh and unless of course by ‘places they shouldn’t legally be’ you mean the entirety of the country of Israel? So please define what you mean here. Are we talking about the 1967 borders, or are we talking about ‘from the rivers to the sea’ (ie all Israeli Jews to leave)

anemona · 18/05/2021 08:10

@GoingOnABarHunt

The report states that China also pays students to defend its actions online, and so if I was having a debate about the actions of the CCP and there were posters defending the indefensible then absolutely it would cross my mind that I was debating with a paid student.
If you think that I or any other posters on this thread are not genuine, you are welcome to report us to MNHQ.

They can see our posting records and it is for them to act.

Accusing other posters of being paid trolls is explicitly against MN rules.

I am continuing to report all your posts on this.

Faffandahalf · 18/05/2021 08:11

I think at least the 1967 borders which they have continued to decimate would be the first place. And without the military presence and occupation and oppression of those areas.
People keep saying they oppose the settlements but then continue to defend Israeli actions. It’s baffling.

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Faffandahalf · 18/05/2021 08:12

[quote Faffandahalf]www.dailysabah.com/opinion/columns/victim-blaming-as-an-israeli-tool-to-whitewash-crimes[/quote]
Checking to see if repost has the clickable link come up as well

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Faffandahalf · 18/05/2021 08:12

@Faffandahalf

m.youtube.com/watch?v=qvfwwy1qJGw

9 members of a family
Killed including 4 children.
The only survivor a baby found in its dead mothers arms.
This was a refugee area

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PollyPaintsFlowers · 18/05/2021 08:12

@Frazzledfranny Hamas won't stop because it is in their charter, and Iran who funds them have also vowed, never to stop until every last Jew is driven into the sea

A government who does this does not want peace. They're training the next generation of 'martyrs'

The below is taken from here hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2020-03-10/debates/C9D591A4-1B68-4D6B-8AD3-5BBC90398051/PalestinianSchoolCurriculumRadicalisation

In schools named after suicide bombers, schoolchildren are taught from the age of six that Israel is a temporary construct that will,*
*
“disappear as the fog over the sea”.*
*
Palestinians are rightly proud of their youth literacy rate, which is among the highest in the world, but it is undermined by the more harmful material within the curriculum, which plays a significant part in indoctrinating the population. Eight-year-olds learn poetry from the following verse:*
*
“I vow I shall sacrifice my blood, to saturate the land of the generous and will eliminate the usurper from my country, and will annihilate the remnants of the foreigners.”

After examining 202 textbooks from the current curriculum, IMPACT-se found,*
*
“a systematic insertion of violence, martyrdom and jihad across all grades and subjects”,*
*
where,*
*
“the possibility of peace with Israel is rejected”.*
*
Nine-year-olds are asked to count the number of martyrs in Palestinian uprisings—“If the number of martyrs of the first intifada is 2,026 martyrs, and the number of martyrs of the Al-Aqsa martyrs intifada is 5,050” and so on. Imagery in a textbook for 16-year-olds implies that Jews control the world. Ten-year-olds are taught that Jews are enemies of Islam and eight-year-olds learn in their textbooks that Jerusalem is a holy city only for Muslims and Christians.
*
I mentioned that Palestinian schools are named after terrorists—at least 31 at the last count. Five of those schools are named after Dalal Mughrabi, the perpetrator of one of the worst terror attacks in Israel’s history, the 1978 coastal road massacre. Mughrabi led the hijacking of a bus and the murder of 38 civilians, including 13 children. She is portrayed as a central female role model for Palestinian girls. In the Arabic language textbook for 10-year-olds, of which I have a copy here, there is a large image of Mughrabi with the accompanying text:

“Dalal Mughrabi: Our Palestinian history is brimming with names of martyrs who have given their lives to the homeland, including the martyr Dalal Mughrabi. Her struggle portrays challenge and heroism, making her memory immortal in our hearts and minds”.
*
I congratulate my hon. Friend on the great speech that he is making. Is he aware that in addition to the 31 schools named after terrorists from the Palestinian Authority, three are named after Nazi collaborators? That sends a clear message, not only that killing Israelis is something that children should be encouraged to do, but that they will be honoured for undertaking such a heinous crime.

The majority of Palestinians are under the age of 25, and recent polling has shown that they are increasingly moving towards more extreme ideology. It is with sad inevitability that the radical incitement I highlight will be a central contributing factor. The Palestinian leadership have failed to provide a positive vision for the future of their people. Until they ensure that their curriculum promotes peace, the prospects for an agreement with Israel will remain bleak.

Most alarming is that these propaganda books are available to children as young as six, and that those on the Palestinian side found guilty of terrorism offences against Israelis—not throwing stones at buses; I have been critical about the way such people have been treated by the courts—are as young as 11. These deeply impressionable young people are being indoctrinated by the failed Palestinian Authority, which relies on fear and the poverty of the Palestinians to foment hatred against Israelis and the wider world.

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. Like him, I have been to Ramallah in the west bank, and met members of the Palestinian Authority. It worries me that they not only glorify terrorism but financially reward it, paying monthly salaries to terrorists and their families to the tune of £260 million in 2018, or 7% of their entire budget. Like him, I desperately want to see peace, but while those payments continue, the prospect is bleak.

It is well known that Palestinian terrorists who kill Israelis receive monthly payments to reward their acts of terrorism, with higher salaries given to those who have killed more Israelis. It should be a matter of great sadness to us all that these children are raised in an environment infected with radical messages, with no hope for peaceful co-existence with Israel.

Again, we are seeing vulnerable young children growing up in a world of conflict who already have some sort of psychological damage, just because of the situation and circumstances in which they live. To add on top of that the material seen in these textbooks and for that to be taught by their teachers will only create more harm. The money could be much better spent on creating a peaceful, tolerant society, while providing world-class mental health support.

I struggle to look my constituents in the eye and justify our overseas aid spending when their hard-earned money enables radicalisation and UK-funded teachers use textbooks filled with hate. The two-state solution that we all hope to see remains unachievable so long as another generation of Palestinians are growing up indoctrinated to hate Israel and Jews. It is our responsibility as donors to ensure that the Palestinian Authority sit up and take note.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 18/05/2021 08:15

Sorry about the terrible formatting, something went wrong between copying, pasting and posting

Faffandahalf · 18/05/2021 08:16

@Faffandahalf

m.youtube.com/watch?v=KHGGkIOV-WE

Video on the suppression and censoring of Palestinian content on social media.
Lots of great info

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joanneg36 · 18/05/2021 08:16

@Faffandahalf then we agree (re 1967 borders). In which case you need to explain why it’s okay for rockets to be fired at civilians in Tel Aviv?

Faffandahalf · 18/05/2021 08:30

Because Israel have decimated those borders and continue to build settlements on Palestinian land and that pisses them off?
They demolish homes they demolish schools they throw people out of their homes they allow settlements to be built they continue to oppress the people in those places and attack and harass and restrict their rights.
I mean duh.

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Faffandahalf · 18/05/2021 08:30

@Faffandahalf

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Faffandahalf · 18/05/2021 08:31

@Faffandahalf

m.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNW6I8ZRKo

Israeli police attacking defenceless women

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anemona · 18/05/2021 08:31

@DeepThinkingGirl

I wonder whether that was the same strategy? When my grandad and his entire narrative was omitted from history.. and silenced.

And then the world got the blanks of history filled up by the “only democratic country in the Middle East” and its narrative.

I wonder what he and the rest of Palestinians had to endure for 70 years, in order for such silence to remain in order to enable the blinding of international community.

Could you just, keep please demonstrating for me. How it all happened.

You are doing a grand job.

Your grandad and his entire narrative are not being silenced from history, what rot.

Did you miss the wall to wall headlines and the massive worldwide protests?? In what world is that a narrative being 'silenced'? Can you name me a single other group of refugees anywhere in the world whose narrative is louder? How much do we hear about Syrian refugees? Or refugees from any of the other current conflicts let alone one that occurred over 70 years ago??

Or how much do you hear about the million Jewish refugees who fled to Israel after being ethnically cleansed from Arab lands?

Let's hear your sympathy for them. Where are the global protests for all of these refugees to get their lands back? Where are the articles about what they lost??

anemona · 18/05/2021 08:37

@Faffandahalf

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.trtworld.com/magazine/big-tech-s-complicity-in-censoring-palestinians-46684/amp

More on censorship of Palestinian support across social media.

But sure it’s all in our heads Hmm

On the contrary, there is an excellent article that was posted before, by Matti Friedman, proving that wrong.

I like the chutzpah though of claiming that the Palestinian narrative is being silenced after a page of media links giving the Palestinian narrative.

Clearly not THAT silenced then.

Faffandahalf · 18/05/2021 08:38

@anemona
Start your own thread about that.
This is just whataboutery and a way to deflect and shut down this conversation. Why would I start a thread about it? Why would I divert the conversation to that??

This thread is about Palestinian oppression even though you keep dragging it away to fit your own agenda.

You obviously have zero shits to give about the Palestinians. Why are you here? To gloat? Just admit they you don’t care about their ethnic cleansing and are happy for them to be wiped out of Israel and killed in the hundreds.

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anemona · 18/05/2021 08:46

@Faffandahalf

That's pretty hateful.

Read my posts

I have explicitly stated repeatedly that I feel sorry for the ordinary Palestinians and it is Hamas - and Netanyahu - who are the problem.

You hate me because I dare to ALSO express sympathy for the ordinary Israelis, as well as the ordinary Palestinians.

Seriously, thankfully I can distinguish the Palestinians from some of those who seek to support them here. Because you seem to be going out of your way to stir up enmity.

Yawnattack · 18/05/2021 08:49

@PollyPaintsFlowers I will take your word that the stated goal of Hamas is to destroy the state of Israel, and those extracts if verified would certainly prove it.

Is it the stated aim of the Israeli government to destroy Palestine?

From 1948 when the state was founded and the expansion leading to the borders in 1967. Israel has continued to expand into Palestine and shows no intention of stopping.

Can you not understand that the actions of the Israeli government are what is fueling Hamas. They are a tiny part of an already small area which the Israeli government treat terribly. Even before this latest round of violence the Israeli government were destroying schools and stealing homes in Palestine.

Hamas are a desperate group doing desperate and stupid things. For as long as the actions of the Israeli government are indulged by the USA, Hamas/Palestine can have no faith that anybody will stop the Israeli aggression.

This is the main difference between the IRA and Hamas being able to come to the negotiating table. The USA stepped in and prevented the aggression of the British government.

Faffandahalf · 18/05/2021 08:50

You’re the hateful one @anemona
You’ve done nothing but attack people like DeepThinking who is herself Palestinian.
You have continued to deflect and distract from the real world issues Happening right now not history from 70 years ago.
You don’t criticise or acknowledge the ethnic cleansing that occurs through settlement
Building and home demolishing and how it is this that leads to hate and anger.

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anemona · 18/05/2021 08:50

Good post @PollyPaintsFlowers

Wonder if it will get a response?

How does teaching Palestinian children that suicide bombers are heroes and financially rewarding the families of suicide bombers with generous pensions help peace??

StoneofDestiny · 18/05/2021 08:51

At least 212 people, including almost 100 women and children, have been killed in Gaza, according to its health ministry. In Israel 10 people, including two children, have been killed, its medical service says

Faffandahalf · 18/05/2021 08:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

GoingOnABarHunt · 18/05/2021 08:54

Good Morning @anemona

Ok, report me for troll hunting despite the fact I never accused any poster of being a troll. I made a post with verifiable BBC sources about Israel and China paying people to defend the actions of their governments online. I also made a post explaining why it is always in the back of my mind whilst discussing human rights violations with people who seems to want to divert away from the fact.

Why would bringing attention to the fact that the Israeli government uses paid students be anti-Semitic? I’ve stated that this is not independent to the Israeli government and would cross my mind in other debates too.

Are the only people who could possibly support Israel Jewish, because that’s essentially what you’re saying in order for accusations to be anti-Semitic? Are all the paid students Jewish? Why are you conflating the Israeli government and the supporters of Israel with Judaism? I can separate them quite easily but your lines seem to be blurred.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 18/05/2021 08:55

@Yawnattack if verified? I provided the link to Hansard, can't get more reliable than that. I'm assuming you know what Hansard is. Did you read it? If so, you'll know findings were backed up by a UN department