Discussing Palestinian Oppression part 2

[Faffandahalf]

Just starting another thread as the other one is full.

Please keep talking about Palestinian occupation and oppression.

Please follow Palestinian support groups like Friends of Al Aqsa and Mohammed el Kurd (an amazing Sheikh Jarrah citizen) on Twitter and Insta to get info from the ground. This will take you to other sources of infor coming out of Palestine.

Please keep Palestine part of the conversation and on social media so it’s not forgotten about.

Supporting Palestine is not anti Semitic
Criticising Israel is not anti Semitic.

As an aside I have not once seen the previous thread in active after page 1.
So MN have let the thread stand after numerous complaints of censorship but still odd that it never came up as active.

@anemona

So why did MN delete it then?

I have your exact words on my email from MN after reporting.

The whataboutery and excuses in this thread is starting to really mentally affect me.

Thank you StoneofDestiny for all the statements. They’re so validating amidst all the noise. Thank you JustFedUP. Thank you everyone who advocated for humanity.

Honestly reconsidering moving to Ireland or scotland one day.

It reminds me when we go to the Palestinians protests and there is always Israeli protesters blasting their music to complement suppress the voices.Defending Palestinians through peaceful means is completely suppressed..

The West Bank has fired no rockets. Yet it suffered human rights violations and international law breakage.

No one here pro Israel has an answer as to how are Palestinian citizens meant to defend themselves through humane means ? Aside from calling out to international communities to bring them justice which right now they’re suppressing.

Shame on everyone here who can say that Palestinians don’t want to talk about peace but yet go and dismiss our suffering in that same breath.

Palestinians don’t want to talk about peace WITH YOU, because you represent everything that broke their peace’s and continue to work hard in doing that.

From now on, I will only read posts from the familiar pro Palestinians usernames on this thread.

Apologies to everyone else.

@GoingOnABarHunt

You know anyone can set up a twitter account and say anything they like, doesn't mean it's true, yes?

Who would benefit from setting up a fake account like that? Do you really, honestly, seriously think if you'd raped someone you'd admit to it so publicly for the world to see? Do you honestly believe that Israel doesn't have laws against rape?

But besides, it was sarcasm. Bad joke, but not real

Give your head a really good shake and stop spreading antisemitic propaganda designed to stir up hate. There's enough of all that already on both sides

@anemona
You talk about a land grab as though everyone else in the world is living in the same place their ancestors did. This is just rubbish. Do you? If you do, you're really unusual. My family is scattered all over the world. We deal with it

Nope - one side of my family were evicted in The Highland Clearances (they Han no say in that, no recompense for that and were subject to that eviction, and job and home loss, by government they had no say in electing. The other side suffered a similar fate in The Irish Famine - land, job and home loss and force to move country to survive.

The difference here is, this is the 21 Century and we have institutions like International Law, The United Nations, charities like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.

The Feudal System should be gone for all civilised people. Injustice can now be challenged through the worlds media. Power and might should not be the determination of what is right.

The Jewish Community is pursuing, through the courts, artworks stolen from them during WW2 - rightly so. Seems stomach churning that they pursue this with a sense of justice whilst the Israeli Government has been and still is stealing the lands off Palestinians who they have no intention of returning the stolen property to ever.

Actually many European Jews didn’t go to Israel. They went to the US and some went to the UK.

The ones who went to Israel were accepted and assisted by the Jews who were already there.

Why do you think the US, UK and especially Arabic countries cannot do the same fir Gazans?

A lot of Palestinians in Jordan by the way. I think if I was a Palestinian I would prefer to live there and not in Haifa which is by now a completely different city...

@JustFedUpOfThis

What makes the Palestinian situation so unique that they can't possibly accept it over 70 years later? Yes, they loved their homes. So did we all.

Yep - the Anti-Arab sentiment continues unabated.

The non-Jewish population (almost entirely Arabs) was cleansed from the land. 88% population reduction and you are saying “get over it”.

As I’ve said repeatedly, the Holocaust was unspeakably awful and should never, ever be forgotten. But that does not justify treating another group, who indirectly helped defeat the Nazis by supporting the British against the Ottomans, with utter contempt. It’s does not justify stealing their homes, making them stateless, confirming them to refugee camps for the rest of their lives. For many a living hell.

And then having the audacity at claiming anti-semitism when anyone criticises Israel and its actions.

That post is full of lies. Sorry to be so blunt. Far from helping against the Nazis, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was an ally of the Nazis. It is widely documented.

Nowhere have I been 'anti-Arab' and that is a disgusting and racist suggestion.

I have simply failed to be sufficiently pro-Arab for you, ie to agree that Arab refugees are somehow more important than all other refugees.

There is one piece of land. Two lots of people have claims on it. Historical and legal claims. I am the one saying you should listen to both sides. You are the one saying that only the Arab side have rights.

There are 7 million Jews living in Israel, the vast majority of whom were born there. You can't just pretend they don't exist because they are not Arab. Jews are also people and they have a legal right to be there.

You may hate the existence of the State of Israel but it has existed legally since 1948 and you're going to need to come to terms with it.

[quote JustFedUpOfThis]@joanneg36 I apologise if pro-Israeli is wrong phrase.

We are close on agreeing I think, but I think the phrase “right to exist” is problematic as it ignores the fact that Israel was founded on Palestinian land.

But Israelis have a “right to live” peacefully in Israel/Palestine as do the Palestinians. I do not advocate a single citizen of Israel having (or being encouraged) to leave. And I agree that Hamas needs to acknowledge that right to live. I am 100% against their mantra of destroy Israel.

I hope that makes sense?[/quote]
@anemona

Stop putting anti-Semitic words in my mouth. If you’d read my post from this morning you’d see that I don’t deny the right of Israelis to continue to live in Israel.

You however claimed that all 1.5billion Muslims support Hamas, and that is why your got deleted. Stop gaslighting.

[quote StoneofDestiny]@anemona
You talk about a land grab as though everyone else in the world is living in the same place their ancestors did. This is just rubbish. Do you? If you do, you're really unusual. My family is scattered all over the world. We deal with it

Nope - one side of my family were evicted in The Highland Clearances (they Han no say in that, no recompense for that and were subject to that eviction, and job and home loss, by government they had no say in electing. The other side suffered a similar fate in The Irish Famine - land, job and home loss and force to move country to survive.

The difference here is, this is the 21 Century and we have institutions like International Law, The United Nations, charities like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.

The Feudal System should be gone for all civilised people. Injustice can now be challenged through the worlds media. Power and might should not be the determination of what is right.

The Jewish Community is pursuing, through the courts, artworks stolen from them during WW2 - rightly so. Seems stomach churning that they pursue this with a sense of justice whilst the Israeli Government has been and still is stealing the lands off Palestinians who they have no intention of returning the stolen property to ever.[/quote]
The founding of the state of Israel was agreed by the UN. It exists legally.

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but it's how it is, and just as I have to deal with the fact that my family lost everything in the War, just as Germans from Prussia have to accept they lost their homes and Hindus from what is now Pakistan ditto, I'm afraid that Palestinians also have to accept that in the upheaval after WWII and the end of empires, borders moved and the modern state of Israel was created. In the same way, the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi, Persian, Tunisian etc Jews forced to leave age-old communities and move to Israel also had to deal with it. None of us love it. It is sad. But we try to live in the present and make the best of it.

@anemona

Victim blaming at its finest. Those pesky Palestinians not accepting theft of their land. How very dare they protest against it.

That's what you are saying. Its disgusting

*I'd love to know what posters genuinely think Palestinians should do to advance their cause? And not "well what they shouldn't do is use their children as human shields" but what they should do to achieve their goal of getting their lands back. Which let's face it, isn't an unreasonable goal?

What other non-violent routes are actually available to them?*

I honestly don’t know, both sides are so entrenched now and Israel has the upper hand. I understand why the Palestinians feel as they do and do what they do and I understand why the Israelis are paranoid and desperate to keep control and have the strongest security they can.

New more moderate leaders definitely would help

I would definitely like to see the question time where a panelist compares UK urban redevelopment to Palestine fucking hell

So let me get this straight.

You think all refugees should protest to get their property back yeah?

So you are in favour of Indians who lived in what is now Pakistan being able to reclaim their previous homes? You support the long-standing Jewish communities from eg Iraq sending over 2000 rockets in a week to Iraq till they get their territory and property back?

You don't think this could be at all problematic for world peace or undesirable in any way?

Because you're not a hypocrite and racist who only wants Palestinians to have these rights but would deny them to Jews and Hindus?

Just to be clear...

That was to @ flashbac

[quote PollyPaintsFlowers]@GoingOnABarHunt

You know anyone can set up a twitter account and say anything they like, doesn't mean it's true, yes?

Who would benefit from setting up a fake account like that? Do you really, honestly, seriously think if you'd raped someone you'd admit to it so publicly for the world to see? Do you honestly believe that Israel doesn't have laws against rape?

But besides, it was sarcasm. Bad joke, but not real

Give your head a really good shake and stop spreading antisemitic propaganda designed to stir up hate. There's enough of all that already on both sides[/quote]
I think you need to give your head a wobble actually - would your reaction be the same if someone was online boasting about raping a Jewish woman? It’s all ok everybody - he was just joking! Move along now...

I posted my initial post as other posters were implying that raping women was independent to the the Palestinian cause after the footage in London.

That account isn’t fake, I actually saw his posts before the account got locked down, many people did. These are the power dynamics and systemic racism at play, there are many enquiries online that are very easy to search for an find involving IDF soldiers and women/children. Of course Israel has laws against rape, but do you honestly think they protect Palestinian women?

@JustFedUpOfThis - you claim I said something but can't quote it. I have said I don't think it and don't think I said it.

Either quote it or drop it.

[quote flashbac]@anemona

Victim blaming at its finest. Those pesky Palestinians not accepting theft of their land. How very dare they protest against it.

That's what you are saying. Its disgusting[/quote]
“Disgusting” is using ordinary Gazans suffering as an argument in your ideological case against Israel instead of actually finding a way to help them.

“Disgusting” is using ordinary Gazans suffering as an argument in your ideological case against Israel instead of actually finding a way to help them.

No no. Rest assured. It’s not disgusting to use someone’s suffering to make their voices heard.

And the voices of every single Palestinian is to condemn Israel.

Every. Single. Child. Dying. And. Their. Bereaved. Parent. Wants. The. World. Condemning. Israel.

@BFrazzled

Where are the Palestinian women complaining of being raped by Israelis on Twitter?

Fuck me, did you really just ask that?

The founding of the state of Israel was agreed by the UN. It exists legally
Spot the difference

@anemona
Your posts are so disingenuous and disgusting.
Palestinian land wasn’t just given to the Israelis in 1948 and that’s the end.
They have consistently and continuously been displaced for the last 70 years. It’s happening now right now.
The borders that were agreed upon mean nothing to the Israeli govt.
it’s not a question of ‘deal with it. It happened 70 years ago. Get over it and move’

ILLEGAL settlements continue to be built right now where Palestinians have been living for 70 years.
You seriously think that’s ok?? I mean wtf
People are constantly displaced from their homes to make way for Jewish settlements. It has been agreed that this is in fact a human rights violation and ILLEGAL and yet you don’t give a shit.

Your dumb BS about India and Pakistan (Im the granddaughter of Indians who were displaced during partition) is just to continually deflect from the oppression and displacement and ethnic cleansing that is occurring in 2021 not 70 years ago but right now.

If you were thrown out of your house today you damn well wouldn’t just roll over and go live on the streets.

If you can understand the argument in words @anemona. Look at it in diagrammatic (map) form