Discussing Palestinian Oppression part 2

[Faffandahalf]

Just starting another thread as the other one is full.

Please keep talking about Palestinian occupation and oppression.

Please follow Palestinian support groups like Friends of Al Aqsa and Mohammed el Kurd (an amazing Sheikh Jarrah citizen) on Twitter and Insta to get info from the ground. This will take you to other sources of infor coming out of Palestine.

Please keep Palestine part of the conversation and on social media so it’s not forgotten about.

Supporting Palestine is not anti Semitic
Criticising Israel is not anti Semitic.

As an aside I have not once seen the previous thread in active after page 1.
So MN have let the thread stand after numerous complaints of censorship but still odd that it never came up as active.

@Flaxmeadow I know the site. Like I said, linking to 'alleged' whatevers off dodgy sites doesn't add credibility to any argument

What is your explanation for the film?

I would have thought ' smashing up homes, forcing people out of neighbourhoods' in the UK would have made the actual news though- I must have missed that

It does make the news. Though usually only local.

I know they arrested the 4 scumbags who were driving around shutting out anti-semitic drivel via a megaphone, in London. And they're being charged.

It was more than drivel!

Piddock

The Palestinians i have met have been lovely friendly people - ideally i’d like you to have your own state - i’d like to see the offer to withdraw settlements as part of the peace process and to share Jerusalem with the Israelis

@anemona

There was a war on, initiated by the side you support. They lost. That's why the figures went down.

Did you miss that? 1948 was quite an important year in Israel's history

Your question on whether I knew 1948 was an important year of Israel’s existence is petulant and childish given I have demonstrated from previous comments that I am well aware of 1948.

But your explanation of “well they lost the war” with regard to the decimation of the Non-Jewish population in Palestine is denial and extremely racist. The non-Jewish population dropped by 88% between 1947 and 1948.

That’s not “because they lost the war” - that’s ethnic cleansing and your attempt to deny this took place is beyond contempt.

(Ps You have STILL not commented on the figures with regard to % split Jew/Non-Jew. You doubted my original figures - I have now substantiated. There was a huge influx of Jews into Palestine before from the end of WW1. But these figures make for uncomfortable reading for you, don’t they? The don’t sit nicely with the inaccurate narrative you are trying to put forward)

It is laughable - and frankly racist - to compare that link to the land with that of recent Indian immigrants to the UK, who settled here for the first time only within living memory.

I’m not comparing them. I’m comparing the situation. I am a big fan of Israel. The people are friendly and educated and were very welcoming. But that really doesn’t change the fact that the Palestinians have been treated very badly and are right to be angry.

@Flaxmeadow. 'What is your explanation for the film?'

I don't have one and NOR do you that's the point. You don't actually know who they are or what's going on. You should send the link to an actual news org and they'll check the authenticity. Or to the police.

They chased those bigots in a car with a police helicopter and it was covered in every major news network and paper - do you honestly believe that worse is happening, physical attacks etc. but the BBC and everyone else are ignoring it??

@Flaxmeadow

remember the fake "fake' Gaza funeral video that was going around a week ago all over 'news' sites and social media that turned out to be something from Jordan 2 years before??

That's why we don;'t post random stuff to get outraged over before at least checking that it's legit.

I think what the politicians in Israel have done is appalling. It’s shameful that the world leaders have turned their heads to it.

The US might finally be putting some pressure on, now Netanyahu has had a chance to prove he's a tough guy.

@anemona

Just to clarify, by the way, in 2020, there were an astonishing ZERO UN Resoutions criticising China. Imprisoning 2 million Uighars in concentration camps does not merit a UN Resolution. Russia got none either. Nor did Saudi.

Interesting....

And regarding the thread title - it even says “part 2”

It was supposedly a continuation of the original thread - which was Mumsnet closing down discussion

[quote JustFedUpOfThis]@anemona

There was a war on, initiated by the side you support. They lost. That's why the figures went down.

Did you miss that? 1948 was quite an important year in Israel's history

Your question on whether I knew 1948 was an important year of Israel’s existence is petulant and childish given I have demonstrated from previous comments that I am well aware of 1948.

But your explanation of “well they lost the war” with regard to the decimation of the Non-Jewish population in Palestine is denial and extremely racist. The non-Jewish population dropped by 88% between 1947 and 1948.

That’s not “because they lost the war” - that’s ethnic cleansing and your attempt to deny this took place is beyond contempt.

(Ps You have STILL not commented on the figures with regard to % split Jew/Non-Jew. You doubted my original figures - I have now substantiated. There was a huge influx of Jews into Palestine before from the end of WW1. But these figures make for uncomfortable reading for you, don’t they? The don’t sit nicely with the inaccurate narrative you are trying to put forward)[/quote]
I have said I will comment when I have researched and I will. I don't have the luxury of responding on here full-time.

Your figures, as I said, only start relatively late. Ignoring the first couple of thousand years of Jewish life in Israel may suit your narrative but it doesn't give the full picture.

Also unclear why you think the fact that some Jews fled there in the period 1910-48 is a problem? Do you think it makes them less Jewish? Somehow removes Jews' previous links to the land?

@JustFedUpOfThis - of things we're waiting for, I'm waiting for you to tell me whether you'd rather live as a Muslim in Israel or a Jew in say Iran.

Particularly a female or gay one.

Be honest.

www.oxfam.org.uk/oxfam-in-action/current-emergencies/gaza-crisis-appeal

For anyone interested in doing something practical to help the civilians in Gaza caught up in this conflict

@anemona

You are deflecting, smoke-screening and trying to divert the attention away from the core issue I am flagging - the ethnic cleansing of non-Jews by the Zionists as a result of the 1948 war.

An 88% drop in non-Jewish population in one year is chilling. it should never be denied or forgotten.

[quote JustFedUpOfThis]@anemona

There was a war on, initiated by the side you support. They lost. That's why the figures went down.

Did you miss that? 1948 was quite an important year in Israel's history

Your question on whether I knew 1948 was an important year of Israel’s existence is petulant and childish given I have demonstrated from previous comments that I am well aware of 1948.

But your explanation of “well they lost the war” with regard to the decimation of the Non-Jewish population in Palestine is denial and extremely racist. The non-Jewish population dropped by 88% between 1947 and 1948.

That’s not “because they lost the war” - that’s ethnic cleansing and your attempt to deny this took place is beyond contempt.

(Ps You have STILL not commented on the figures with regard to % split Jew/Non-Jew. You doubted my original figures - I have now substantiated. There was a huge influx of Jews into Palestine before from the end of WW1. But these figures make for uncomfortable reading for you, don’t they? The don’t sit nicely with the inaccurate narrative you are trying to put forward)[/quote]
And what do you mean 'decimation of the Non-Jewish population in Palestine'?

That implies mass murder, when it's pretty clear by the numbers of Palestinians and their descendants elsewhere, that they just moved.

You'll find me, as the child of refugees who fled to the UK, somewhat less moved by that than you would like. Yes, there had just been a massive world war and there were huge population movements and refugees all over the place. Compare it to the mass population movements in India at the creation of Pakistan at almost exactly the same time. That involved millions of people moving in vast population transfers, and millions of deaths. It was much bloodier.

Yes, for every individual family that was forced to move it was a huge wrench and I sympathise. But my family picked up and carried on in a new country, starting from nothing. I'm not still tweeting attacking Germans and sending thousands of rockets to Berlin every couple of years.

If I've moved on, so can others.

There's not of deflecting going on. Its sickening how anyone can defend ethnic cleansing.

@flashbac

There's not of deflecting going on. Its sickening how anyone can defend ethnic cleansing.

Theres alot*

'@JustFedUpOfThis - of things we're waiting for, I'm waiting for you to tell me whether you'd rather live as a Muslim in Israel or a Jew in say Iran.'

I do wonder what on earth the point of questions like these have to do with whether or not the Israeli authorities should stop bombing the hell out of civilians in Gaza? Is it a race to the bottom?

If you look at figures for numbers of Hindus in Pakistan or Muslims in India for 1947, you'll find exactly the same thing. But where are your posts complaining about another new country's, Pakistan's, 'ethnic cleansing' of Hindus? The reality is it was part of widespread population transfers at that time, as the end of the British Empire allowed countries to settle along more logical national lines.

And millions really did die there, horrifically. So if you were going to use the phrase ethnic cleansing, that would be a better one.

@flashbac

There's not of deflecting going on. Its sickening how anyone can defend ethnic cleansing.

Are you as upset about the creation of Pakistan then?

Vast ethnic cleansing of Hindus to create a Muslim state. Virtually the same time. Far more deaths.

If not, why not? Where are your posts attacking Pakistan??

'And millions really did die there, horrifically. So if you were going to use the phrase ethnic cleansing, that would be a better one.'

it's not ethnic cleansing Top bloody Trumps...

[quote Menoismymate]'@JustFedUpOfThis - of things we're waiting for, I'm waiting for you to tell me whether you'd rather live as a Muslim in Israel or a Jew in say Iran.'

I do wonder what on earth the point of questions like these have to do with whether or not the Israeli authorities should stop bombing the hell out of civilians in Gaza? Is it a race to the bottom?[/quote]
It's in response explicitly to questions further up the thread asking where I or other posters would prefer to live.

I notice you prefer not to answer the question.

Is that because you'd have to admit that Israeli Arabs get treated pretty well compared to Jews elsewhere in the Middle East?

Why are people who refuse to completely blame or completely condemn israel being repeatedly accused of deflecting, gaslighting and of trying to shut down discussion/the thread etc

It’s so dishonest

@Menoismymate

'And millions really did die there, horrifically. So if you were going to use the phrase ethnic cleansing, that would be a better one.'

it's not ethnic cleansing Top bloody Trumps...

Why not?

Define ethnic cleansing in a way that applies to Israel but not to Pakistan?

Ah sorry, just reread and realised you are agreeing it IS ethnic cleansing.