To really want to know where I went wrong with breastfeeding?

[sunglassesintherain]

I don’t know if anyone might be able to help me process and understand where I went wrong.

My baby was born at just over 40 weeks after a failed induction and emergency section. I lost consciousness after the operation and so I didn’t get skin to skin with him. OH gave him a bottle of formula milk.

He slept pretty much constantly for twelve hours and when I tried to breastfeed him he just kept losing his latch and getting increasingly frustrated. We persevered for the three days we were in hospital but when he was weighed when we went home he’d lost 12% of his birth weight. We were put on a feeding plan with formula expressed breast milk and trying to feed from the breast.

I saw an independent lactation consultant and he had a tongue tie snipped (she did say it was only a tiny one so not sure it would have made all that much difference) and had community midwives come out but no one would really help.

I expressed for him for nearly three months but I am just trying to work out where I went wrong. Was it not getting skin to skin when he was born?

No I understand and you are probably right but I do feel there’s some emotions there I need to process.

I do think formula is jumped too a bit too quickly but it’s a very difficult thing to balance. I wish support with breastfeeding - real support - was the first go to rather than formula though.

My eldest for reasons no one could ever really explain just point blank refused to latch on. I tried everything, had countless people hold his head in one hand and my boob in the other. He just wasn’t having any of it.

On top of this I am being told that I NEED to make sure he has enough milk while being told at the same time I need to reduce the formula he is having 🤷🏼‍♀️

No one could give me the answer to how can I get milk into him when he won’t latch, I am unable to express enough to feed him without being able to give him formula🤷🏼‍♀️

After a couple of weeks of going mad I just gave up trying to breastfeed/ express because I could feel my mental health plummeting and no one could give me any answers. Nobody had a clue what to advise.

I struggled with it for a long time. I felt such guilt. Then one day I realised it hadn’t crossed my mind for ages.

With my youngest initially I wasn’t sure if I even wanted to attempt to breastfeed her. However, I decided to give it a go and I gave myself permission to switch to formula as soon as I felt I needed to. She was a little champ from birth, she latched on perfectly first time. The midwives were so happy with her.

We were doing really well, however by day 3 it concerned me because apart from the black tar poo they get at the beginning, she hadn’t pood since. My son just pood constantly, so to me it was strange.

By day 5 she had stopped weeing and was refusing to latch on. All she was doing was screaming and crying. Luckily, the midwife was due to come to us anyway. She weighed her and she had lost 13% of her birthweight. The midwife was surprised but had to send us to the hospital, this was right before Covid really took off.

I was advised to keep trying the breast but to finish with a formula top off. She kept refusing the breast but devoured the formula.

I initially was going to seek help and support but then lockdown happened and all services just stopped for weeks.

By the time remote support became established she was starting to strive on formula. I was no longer leaking milk (figured my milk had dried up). So, I just figured it wasn’t worth going down that road.

I have felt no guilt this time round.

I am sad about both experiences. But guilt? Absolutely not.

On both occasions I tried my best, but for reasons out of my control, it didn’t work out.

Both my children are healthy. They are striving. They have full tummies. My daughter still doesn’t wee or poo as much as her brother but many HCP have said every child is different and they have always been happy with the amount she does produce.

Be kind to yourself, it’s still very fresh. However, one day it won’t be such a big thing. One day you’ll look back and you will see what everyone else sees.

I think of you're getting advised to use ff it can be very difficult though because some HV and mw do try to push it all costs. It's hard as a new mum to work out whether you have one of 'those' midwives or whether the weight loss is 'ok'.

I think broadly more support,.proper tongue tie assessments at birth and things like shields available on post delivery wards would help hugely. Those are the things I wish I'd have had.

@sunglassesintherain

No I understand and you are probably right but I do feel there’s some emotions there I need to process.

I do think formula is jumped too a bit too quickly but it’s a very difficult thing to balance. I wish support with breastfeeding - real support - was the first go to rather than formula though.

I’m not so sure, I found that breastfeeding was really intently pushed by nearly every professional we came across. The NHS feeding class during pregnancy didn’t even cover safe formula prep. It was marketed as feeding but was in reality a breastfeeding class.

I think we all have different experiences, but for those of us who had to supplement it’s sometimes difficult not to look back and think ‘if only’... if only they hadn’t suggested formula or i’d refused it, maybe things would have turned out okay.

It should always be a woman’s choice imo, no judgement or pressure either way. Be given factual info about breastfeeding and formula feeding and then support people to achieve whichever method feels right for them. We are incredibly lucky imo that we do have backup in formula for cases where baby isn’t coping EBF, imagine living in a time or place without that option

Also, OP: you might never work out exactly what went wrong. However, if you have another baby, you'll be approaching feeding from a position of experience. It didn't work out as you might have hoped, but you know more now than you did then.

I also think that support is key. The NCT breastfeeding counsellor I spoke to with DS1 was, quite frankly, useless. So I put my faith in midwives and hvs, who pushed ff as soon as things went wrong.

Second time around and the NCT lady who helped me was about a thousand times better than the first one, and I also accessed some excellent peer supporters.

I had a special bra that allowed me to pump hands free but the problem is if baby wants to be held it’s hard to do that with flanges coming out of your chest. I don’t think he was ever apart from me so it wasn’t that.

If it's the typical bottle/flange thing,.yes

But it's easier with eg an Elvie pump or Freemie collection cups - which are held snug against your boob inside a stretchy bra.

Worth a try if you have another child and similar occurs

I knew very little about bf before ds was born. It never really worked although we got by for 3 weeks or so. Expressing was hopeless for me, I could barely cover the bottom of a bottle after 30 minutes but I had no real idea that it should be say different. A factor for me was that both my mother side mother in law had had appalling times with bf in the late 60s and fully expected that it wouldn't work. Then we were admitted to hospital at 4 weeks. The fact is that multiple small factors can make a difference but you still can't guarantee a straightforward path.

I do think doing it again means you are prepared to get help much earlier, and that makes a huge difference.

Even better if you have enough supply to pump on one side only and hold baby on other.

I think everyone’s had very different experiences frozen but while I’ve heard in the abstract that breastfeeding is pushed it wasn’t for me personally.

Everyone was pushing formula despite me saying ‘but I really want to breastfeed.’

Maybe if someone shows ambivalent feelings towards breastfeeding they push it more, I don’t know. It was a pandemic pregnancy so antenatal classes and so on weren’t on.

*I don’t think he was ever apart from me so it wasn’t that.

Sorry just to make it clear that isn't why I was suggesting the hands free; I don't know why, it's possible lack of skin to skin etc had nothing to do with it. I just thought it might be helpful if you want to hold baby in future while pumping/if you need to pump. I found the freemie's amazing, esp if you can get a portable pump with them.

I agree with a pp that a lot of it IS luck. By rights I "should" have struggled to bf my first - no skin to skin, I was in theatre for hours after delivery so first feed was formula, I had a PPH of 3.5l, had a terrible infection on waking and was in hdu on IV antibiotics. Aside from a couple of bottles of formula that first week when I was going for scans/back go theatre, ds1 fed brilliantly from the breast. Once home he never had a bottle again and bf-d until he was 2yo. I honestly found it easy - it wasn't even painful and ds1 gained weight almost too well (he was an absolute chunk). Yet I've had friends with textbook, straightforward births who didn't manage to establish bf at all despite their very best efforts. So, yes, there is an element of luck in my opinion. When it comes down to it, op, you had a tough start and you made the right choice for your baby and you. You absolutely should not feel guilty about that. You honestly can't tell the difference between my bf child and my friends' ff children! It seems so important at the time when they are babies, but it's really not. Don't beat yourself up - you have no reason to!

But I saw the lactation consultant when he was five days old permanent so I’m not sure really ... I don’t think I would express to feed again.

It's sounds like it was more the latch, and I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment in that.

In some cases it's clearly not possible to resolve that.

@sunglassesintherain

I think everyone’s had very different experiences frozen but while I’ve heard in the abstract that breastfeeding is pushed it wasn’t for me personally.

Everyone was pushing formula despite me saying ‘but I really want to breastfeed.’

Maybe if someone shows ambivalent feelings towards breastfeeding they push it more, I don’t know. It was a pandemic pregnancy so antenatal classes and so on weren’t on.

I think because he’d lost 12%. If you weren’t able to express enough after a feed to cup feed him then formula is clinically indicated (as mentioned in the link above, which is useful for understanding how the NHS approach different levels of weight loss).

Anyway, when all is said and done I really wish for healing for you. You sound like a very loving mum. Breastfeeding grief is not an unusual or uncommon thing, but if it continues to bother you in time don’t hesitate to reach out for some counselling

Thank you

I don’t think I would express to feed again.

If you do have another child and are in a position to have to pump again (which you may not be) honestly I'd try an Elvie pump or Freemie cups or similar. Sorry I sound like a sales agent for them, I'm not , they're just in a different league from traditional collection bottles stuck through a pumping bra.

Pumping has major disadvantages, no doubt.
YouTube has lots of vids that were helpful to me re pumping - because it's relatively big in the US.

I find bf'ing knowledge and support in this country to be shit - and I'm.including mid wives and some specialists in that.

Sorry you're feeling this way. I struggled to bf DS1 and only managed 3 weeks. His latch was awful and my mental health was shot after a horrific HG pregnancy. My NCT group made me feel shit about it and I struggled like you are.

I had DS2 in November and bf him for 5 months, 4 exclusively. He pretty much weaned himself off, and I was hoping to get to 6 months but am happy enough with that.

Both boys were born by c section (my milk came in fine both times). What I am trying to say is, because it didnt work out first time doesnt mean it wont second time.

Also, please dont beat yourself up. DS1 is starting school in September, I dont ever think about how I fed him as a baby nor would you be able to tell who in his class was or wasnt. It seems a big deal now but it honestly wont be for long.

Is it your first? The birth you describe sounds exactly like my first - failed induction, emcs. I was spent before the baby even got there. Struggle to latch, struggled to find a position I could relax in, minimum support, breastfeeding was just a bloody horrible experience. I did something similar to you. I did some mixed feeding - bottle, boob, formula, expressed for about 3/4 months before moving to formula completely. I also beat myself up over it because I felt I'd made a mistake somewhere along the line and couldn't work out what it was.

My second baby I breast fed for a year. It wasn't easy to establish, but it was a world away from the first time. I just think all the odds were against me the first time and I did the best I could.

I really don't think it's supposed to be THAT hard. It's hard, but not THAT hard. I hope you manage to let go of the guilt about this, because you definitely didn't do anything wrong, you just got handed a shitty situation and you really did your best with that situation. In fact, though you say you were irritable with trying to express, you went above and beyond to try to 'make up the difference' for your child.

It makes me quite sad reading your post, because it reminds me of all the guilt I felt for the first couple of years - felt like I'd failed at giving birth, failed at bf, basically a big fat failure who didn't try hard enough. That feeling will go away - 12 years on for me and it's made no difference to my children. How they arrived here and what they ate for the first few months is absolutely insignificant in the whole picture of their life.

OP I was determined to breastfeed with myast baby. I had a hard delivery, and after my blood pressure shot away up after being fine through my whole pregnancy and labour. My iron was low, she was latched on for hours after birth. Most of the next day and by the end of the day she was absolutely starving because she wasn't getting enough milk. I eventually had to give her formula, which was offered by one of the midwifes. She guzzled it, and was looking for more. I persevered for weeks. Couldn't express because I was in so much pain, and there was just nothing coming out. Nowhere near enough for my 10lb baby that's for sure. She was taking full bottles in between breastfeeds, so was clearly getting hardly anything.
They kept telling me the more I breastfed the more milk I would have, but it just wasn't working like that for me. I was in so much pain because she couldn't seem to latch properly, and kept just getting nipple.
I had a good few days where I just felt useless and so guilty for failing her. I'm just glad weobe in a time where baby formula is so readily available.

You done amazing ! Don't beat yourself up. I fortunately have not struggled with breastfeeding but I also express and know how much it can take out of you so to do it for 3 months is really great. We also give our baby formula sometimes so that he will accept it in an emergency. Your baby has been fed and happy and that is all that matters.

I just had to reply.

You didn’t do anything wrong, you really didn’t. Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason. I fed my first two, it was a walk in the park. My third.........I tried everything to the point that I made myself ill. I finally gave up at nearly 3 months. Like you, I just couldn’t work out where I had gone wrong, I really couldn’t.

My friend was a midwife. Fed her first four. Her fifth...... it made her and baby ill continuing to try. Again there was no reason. Be gentle on yourself.

You did what was best for your baby 💕💕

I had a similar birth in that I had a c section after failed induction and baby lost 13% weight. I think for me it really was just the case that my milk took bloody ages to come in - I think it was 4 - 5 days or something. Then all of a sudden it came and the health visitor said to feed him every two hours, day and night, and from there it went ok. Some latch issues too - I went to a breastfeeding support group every week and that really helped. For me, accessing ongoing support was key. I have felt for mother’s during the pandemic whom I doubt have had access to such intensive, group support.

With my first child, he latched immediately and breast feeding was great. I had zero issues and fed him for a year. With my second it was a nightmare. She didn’t latch properly and it was a huge struggle to feed her, every feed left me in tears. My nipples were hanging on by a thread. When she was 5 months I fell pregnant again and things got worse. I limped on for another 5 months, expressing as much as I could. Baby number 3 was back to being easy and I fed him until he was 19 months.

Sometimes it just doesn’t work out, no matter how much support you get.

As the mum of two boys, 8 & 10, both of whom struggled to breastfeed - especially the first - I'd just say that whilst breast is best, formula is a pretty bloody good second and, once they're merrily eating everything in sight, it really doesn't make a jot of difference what milk they get as babies.

I agonised and analysed and felt like a failure and felt awful guilt and it all seems so silly and unimportant now. There are so many reasons it might not work.

Both mine were c-sections so I have that guilt too! Apparently they will have been born miles behind in terms of developing a healthy gut microbiome! Honestly, they're never ill and are both bright, healthy, happy boys.

Women need to stop feeling guilty and focus on what's going well and all the things they're getting right as mothers. If breastfeeding doesn't work for you draw a line under it and move on.

Sorry - I know you were looking for practical answers but not sure there are any and I hate seeing this obvious anxiety and guilt over something that really isn't that important in the grand scheme of things.

I had a similar start to BFing as you: missed out on a lot of skin to skin, baby seemed drowsy, just couldn’t latch, small tongue tie. I ended up exclusively expressing for a while which I detested because I felt so disconnected from baby.

Paid for multiple appointments with a private IBCLC who finally got DD to latch at 4.5 weeks old. I attempted to latch DD regularly during the day. Tongue tie snip at 6 weeks really helped but she needed top ups because she still wasn’t transferring enough milk and sometimes I just needed a break because my nipples were shredded. By 14 weeks I was exclusively direct breastfeeding and had phased out the top ups. It was still AGONY until DD was about 4 months old. Latching on one side was toe curling painful. I truly think there was just a huge mismatch between my large, flat nipples and her tiny mouth. I question whether persevering with that level of stress and pain would be the right choice for most mother-baby dyads.

To me it sounds like you didn’t have the right hands on support that you needed to keep working on getting your baby to latch. I had no idea what I was supposed to do and neither did my baby. We don’t grow up watching women breastfeed so we are so unprepared for any challenges.