To really want to know where I went wrong with breastfeeding?

[sunglassesintherain]

I don’t know if anyone might be able to help me process and understand where I went wrong.

My baby was born at just over 40 weeks after a failed induction and emergency section. I lost consciousness after the operation and so I didn’t get skin to skin with him. OH gave him a bottle of formula milk.

He slept pretty much constantly for twelve hours and when I tried to breastfeed him he just kept losing his latch and getting increasingly frustrated. We persevered for the three days we were in hospital but when he was weighed when we went home he’d lost 12% of his birth weight. We were put on a feeding plan with formula expressed breast milk and trying to feed from the breast.

I saw an independent lactation consultant and he had a tongue tie snipped (she did say it was only a tiny one so not sure it would have made all that much difference) and had community midwives come out but no one would really help.

I expressed for him for nearly three months but I am just trying to work out where I went wrong. Was it not getting skin to skin when he was born?

[FrozenCucumberPresse]

I was so determined to breastfeed. I wish I knew what happened?

You’re struggling with the fact that for most things in life if you want something, prepare for it, and try your hardest, it’ll work. But that isn’t the case for bf. It doesn’t matter how hard you want it or how much you try to achieve it, in some cases it’s not physically safely doable for you and your baby.

I was very surprised to learn that as everything I’d read before birth said if you want to bf you will, don’t give yourself any alternatives, don’t keep formula in the house and so forth. It’s all nonsense. Hard work and desire can’t fix an incompatibility with your nipple shape and baby’s mouth. It can’t force a supply when there isn’t one (after trying methods to increase removal). It’s so frustrating.

As others have said, lots of people wish they’d stopped bf earlier than they did, so the advice to persevere because it gets better isn’t accurate for everyone.

It’s not helped by the number of people who were able to breastfeed who talk as though it was entirely down to their own hard work, and don’t acknowledge the luck that played a part imo.

We deserve better bf education, including being told during pregnancy that while the majority of women who want to breast feed will be able to, not everyone can and that’s not your fault and your baby won’t be in any way worse off. Breast milk has some great aspects, formula has some great aspects, and there’s no universal best when it comes to each mother and baby pair.

I know you know this, but are struggling with the emotional side. I hope in time you come to truly believe that you were just unlucky and you did absolutely nothing wrong ❤️

[MarshmallowAra]

(US mums who go back to work often at 3 months and tend to pump a lot use photos and recordings of their baby crying to pump more).

[Clarabellawilliamson]

Oh lovely, I think lots of us know how you feel, there is SO much emotion tied up in it. You know in your head what is rational and not, but that doesn't change how you feel about it.
I think some babies can't latch properly, no matter what you do. I think historically these babies would fail to thrive, and people have bottle fed these babies for a long long time. You have done your absolute best for your baby.
Your feelings really will change with time, I can see this now. My insistence that we persevered with BF, through weight loss, readmission to hospital, UV treatment, feeding plans, top ups, daily weigh ins, pumping, lactation consultants etc was entirely irrational. I now wish we hadn't done it, I feel so sad thinking about those early days that I could have been enjoying.

It's ok to feel however you feel, but try to remind yourself that you did what was best at the time, and everyone is ok at the end of it.

[MarshmallowAra]

Your baby got breast milk from your hard work pumping; so you've still given them that advantage.

[Vanillaradio]

Op you did nothing wrong, nothing at all. You fed your baby who needed feeding. I was in a fairly similar situation to you though at 37 weeks- failed induction, emergency c section. Ds just wouldn't latch whatever we tried, he either fell asleep or screamed his head off. I managed to express 90% of what he needed for 6 weeks and did about 50/50 for another 2 before switching to formula altogether. I get the guilt you are feeling right now because I have been there. You are a mother who wanted to do your best for your baby. But you did-in your situation breast feeding wasn't the best thing for your baby. And expressing full time is really really hard, particularly as your baby grows, needs more and more milk and you need to spend some time with him rather than be constantly milking yourself.
I now have a happy, healthy and bright 7 year with a great immune system - nobody even thinks to question how he was fed and I have no idea which of his very similar gang of friends was or wasn't. I never had another baby after him but if you have another you will do what you did this time- the best for him or her, whether that is breast feeding or not.

[toconclude]

Unlikely. Skin to skin is fetishized by the lactation consultants because it sounds woo. I exclusively bf both mine and in both cases they were unwell at birth and whisked away for a bit.

[reallyreallyborednow]

It’s unfashionable to say this, but a lot of whether bf works out or not is pure luck

I’m not sure it is. I think a lot is poor support and advice- the link just posted for example, weight loss is normal in the first few days- yet so many times I’ve heard of women not allowed to leave hospital until they’ve supplemented and the weight is gained.

The rigid feed-express-top up regimes often insisted on are brutal. No break, no rest, but women are made to feel they have to do it if they want to bf. No wonder they can’t do it and just switch to formula. Often they are better just taking to the sofa and feeding as much as possible.

[Echobelly]

Seconded thirded etc you didn't go 'wrong' anywhere and there's no point in going over it. That your baby is happy and healthy is what matters.

BF never worked out with DD and I'm OK with that - we were both happier when she went to bottle. It was OK with DS (although first 3 weeks were agony).

[FrozenCucumberPresse]

@sunglassesintherain

Mine wasn’t jaundiced at all - everyone commented on how lovely and pink he was (he still goes alarmingly red if a terrible crime is committed like putting a cardigan on when it is cold!) but I don’t think S2S helped us much either horehound, he barely wore clothes in the first three weeks!

I was so determined to breastfeed. I wish I knew what happened?

I probably should have persevered more, I think I feel a lot of guilt about that. I’ve seen that book recommended before and I do want to read it but I think I’d find it really upsetting just now.

Respectfully to the other poster, I heavily recommend against reading the womanly art of breastfeeding. For many reasons. The LLL (who wrote the book) believe there is never any justification to give a baby formula and if they’re struggling with bf it’s because you are doing something wrong and you need to give donor milk while you fix it. The leader of our local LLL told a mum with low supply to stop giving her baby formula as it causes cancer.

It would not only be an upsetting read, but a useless one. They are notorious for advising unsafe, dangerous practices and being aggressively anti formula.

[Whitewolf2]

You did your best and that’s all you can do. My milk was disappointing- just not a strong supply! My baby lost 12% weight over a week had to go back into hospital and do pumping and bottles. I persevered with a combination of BF, pumping and formula for 6 months, despite lots of feeding and pumping (several times a night as apparently that’s when supply should be greatest!) it never increased, looking back I did my best and really could have given up a lot earlier! With my second the same thing happened, we went straight to formula and I didn’t bother with the pumping. Now they are older you definitely can’t tell the difference of which had more breast milk!

[Winkywonkydonkey]

If someone could design a machine to show mums how much milk their baby is.getting from a feed then it would probably sincrease bf rates significantly. I think most people I know who have switched to FF do it because they are concerned with milk transfer and weight gain. And most people who I know who have bf have had to make the scary call to push through weight loss (which takes a lot of nerves if you've got professionals saying it's the wrong thing to do)

[sunglassesintherain]

I think up to 10% loss is within the normal range, but I do think that should be revised for c section babies, as I think they often lose a bit more weight because of mucus and so on.

I had a special bra that allowed me to pump hands free but the problem is if baby wants to be held it’s hard to do that with flanges coming out of your chest. I don’t think he was ever apart from me so it wasn’t that.

echo but there is a point, even if that point is only to allow me to process how it went wrong. I don’t blame myself, I think there are some things I could have done differently but I don’t think they were my fault. But I would like this not to happen again.

[CanOfLilt]

OP I have felt as you do. I promise it will get better and over the years will gradually fade into insignificance. My ds is 12. A book that helped me was the Politics of Breastfeeding. It helped me understand how the odds are stacked against us to successfully breastfeed in countries like the UK.

FWIW I breastfed my second for just short of 2 years (although not exclusively).

[FrozenCucumberPresse]

@reallyreallyborednow

It’s unfashionable to say this, but a lot of whether bf works out or not is pure luck

I’m not sure it is. I think a lot is poor support and advice- the link just posted for example, weight loss is normal in the first few days- yet so many times I’ve heard of women not allowed to leave hospital until they’ve supplemented and the weight is gained.

The rigid feed-express-top up regimes often insisted on are brutal. No break, no rest, but women are made to feel they have to do it if they want to bf. No wonder they can’t do it and just switch to formula. Often they are better just taking to the sofa and feeding as much as possible.

Sorry to derail OP but I think this is important to clarify for people scrolling by:

Yes, they’re not allowed to leave until baby has gained some weight because it can be very dangerous for a newborn to keep declining in weight. Things can happen very quickly (baby becomes listless and lethargic overnight, too sleepy to nurse effectively but parents think they’re just sleeping well, mum has low supply but doesn’t realise, parents not being best placed to spot visually whether their baby is coping or not). It would be negligent to send a baby who has lost a significant amount of weight and shown no signs of gaining home until feeding is established.

Yep, triple feeding is absolutely brutal. I did it for nine long months. But it is the way to keep breastfeeding going if that’s a mother’s wish, while also ensuring baby is getting adequate calories. It shouldn’t usually be continued beyond a couple of weeks, once supply is established.

If a baby is losing a significant amount of weight and hasn’t put any on then it would be negligent to send them home to sit on the sofa and ‘feed as much as possible’, there can be all kinds of issues meaning they’re not able to get adequate calories from nursing and doctors don’t mess around when it comes to babies.

Breastfeeding is great if that’s what you want to do and it works, but a baby receiving adequate calories is more important, that comes first.

Here’s some useful info on NHS guidelines regarding newborn weight loss in breastfeeding infants, based on clinical evidence. At 10-12% loss the treatment is expressing after a feed then offering that, or formula, in a cup:

www.plymouthhospitals.nhs.uk/download.cfm?doc=docm93jijm4n5634

[OhWhyNot]

You did nothing wrong

Please stop beating yourself up

I had to have an emergency csection, I produced very little milk so had to top up sometimes our bodies do not work the way they are designed to (yet have been told be some so called bf experts this is nonsense though experts I came into contact with never said anything of the sort unfortunately it happens)

Expressing for so long wow that’s hard word well done

Your baby is fed, loved and well cared for you doing that is all that is needed relax and enjoy this time

[Lostlemuria]

People are so obsessed with breast is best and it’s bullshit. My DS was EBF for 10 months, 10 years later he is autistic and has a terrible diet. Me BFing made no difference to his outcomes at all. You have done your best OP and you have done nothing wrong and your baby will be fine!

[Tal45]

Goodness OP no one could have tried harder or 'better' than you! Mixing bottle feeding with breast in the early days can cause problems from what I understand because getting milk out of the bottle requires a lot less effort. Maybe that was the issue?

I wouldn't worry that you will necessarily have the same or any issues next time - my mum found it impossible to feed me but then fed my bro for 6 months no problem. xxx

[FrozenCucumberPresse]

@Winkywonkydonkey

If someone could design a machine to show mums how much milk their baby is.getting from a feed then it would probably sincrease bf rates significantly. I think most people I know who have switched to FF do it because they are concerned with milk transfer and weight gain. And most people who I know who have bf have had to make the scary call to push through weight loss (which takes a lot of nerves if you've got professionals saying it's the wrong thing to do)

Weighted feeds are basically that. Short of that, a newborn’s weight loss pattern is the best indicator, which is already measured.

You hear a lot about the lucky people who ignored medical advice and luckily their baby survived unscathed. You don’t tend to hear from the parents (like one I was chatting to yesterday) who was so determined to exclusively breastfeed her failure to thrive baby he had to be admitted to hospital and his mum be threatened with social services involvement if she did not allow the staff to give him much needed formula. She was starving her baby and too entrenched in the desire to EBF (which doesn’t come from nowhere) to be able to listen to qualified professionals.

Please, let’s not make people who weren’t able to bf for the sake of their child’s health second guess whether they should have refused treatment.

[Pythonesque]

If breastfeeding were always possible if you just 'tried hard enough' 'got the right help' 'had enough support at home' or whatever, then formula milk would never have been invented. Throughout history there have been women who have not been able to feed their own babies - hence wet nurses which I'm sure just formalised something that had always been done in all communities.

Very well done for pumping so long. Don't blame yourself, I hope you will be able to release your feelings of guilt. Motherhood can easily be one long guilt trip!

[sunglassesintherain]

That’s very extreme though frozen

I don’t think I feel any guilt over feeding, I just feel sad it soured our relationship.

[FrozenCucumberPresse]

Sorry, which one of my comments was extreme?

[sunglassesintherain]

It was the example of the woman threatened with SS, not the comment as such but the anecdote.

I’m just a bit worried that anyone struggling to breastfeed might be panicking now thinking that SS will take their baby and that’s the last thing I would want to happen on the back of this thread!

[FrozenCucumberPresse]

Ah! I understand.

Yeah, it was horrible. But people are very fond of subtly advising others to ignore medical advice to supplement, I think it does need saying that that isn’t a wise choice even if your baby was lucky and came through it okay.

She was well aware that doctors were worried a long way before that point. Just had a lot of people encouraging her to keep EBF because ‘doctors are so quick to push formula’ and couldn’t accept it.

Infant feeding is a really emotive topic, not helped by the amount of misinformation around it and often a chorus of people online cheering you on to keep bf no matter what.

[Barnabyagain]

More of a lurker than a commenter on here but want to echo PPs in saying you are amazing for expressing for three months. Won’t go into my own story but I’ve also had difficulty and I know how tough the feelings of guilt can get. If I could offer any advice ( which I wish I could take myself) I’d say try your hardest not to get too hung up on what went ‘wrong’. It might seem like a productive way of dealing with it but in my opinion we risk becoming fixated on what we ‘should’ have done and what could have been, which becomes depressing. You’ve done such an amazing job, please try and focus on that!
Sorry if this sounds preachy. I wish someone had said this to me a couple of months ago.

[cadburyegg]

I breastfed both of my children and both of them had tongue ties so I learnt a lot about breastfeeding and ties due to this (I’m not saying this to make you feel guilty, just that I know quite a bit about this topic). To me it sounds like a combination of:

1. The tongue tie wasn’t detected early and snipped then - in an ideal world, we would have lactation consultants helping every woman who wanted to breastfeed in the postnatal wards.
   
2. Lack of support - you said no one would really help. In hospital, they should have been prompting you to wake baby every 3-4 hours and sitting with you to watch baby feed, checking the latch etc. However, in practise that doesn’t often happen due to lack of staff and knowledge. Contrary to popular belief, midwives aren’t particularly knowledgable about breastfeeding and the majority of them aren’t trained in detecting tongue ties properly (a 10 second glance in the mouth isn’t sufficient). That’s not a criticism of them, it’s just my experience and what I’ve learnt over the years (DS1 is now 6) from other women who have had similar experiences to mine. The private lactation consultant who snipped both of my boys’ tongue ties said that she left the NHS because no one was interested in the job she wanted to do.
   
3. Not being able to breastfeed quickly after birth - in my experience that makes a huge difference, and I say that with no implication that that was down to you, because it obviously it couldn’t be helped and you weren’t able to. I had a traumatic birth with DS1 and couldn’t feed him for at least 2 hours, DS2 I could feed straight away and DS1 was the one I had the most feeding issues with.
   

Just to give you a quick explanation of my own experience - 3-4 times my DS1 was checked for a tongue tie by health visitors and midwives and they all said he didn’t have one. A private lactation consultant finally picked it up but he was nearly 4 months old then. Those 4 months were some of the most miserable of my life. I was exhausted (obviously), my episiotomy stitches broke down, DS1 cried for about 15 hours a day and it hurt to breastfeed. But somehow he carried on putting on weight so no one cared and just told me to carry on. The ONLY reason I did carry on was because there was a local charity who had volunteers visit new mums in their homes to help with breastfeeding, which is why I said it’s crucial to have support, even if they couldn’t detect the tongue tie.

I am not convinced that we should be putting so much importance on how much weight baby loses within the first 3 days either - I’m not saying it isn’t important, but I’ve seen countless women give up breastfeeding after that because the midwives have frightened them with their “baby has lost X%”. I say this because DS1 - the baby who i really struggled feeding - only lost 3% after 3 days. But DS2 feeding was better (although he was still tied) yet he lost over 10%.

Something else my experiences have taught me is that the little support women do get, is mainly being lectured at about how amazing breastfeeding is but any struggle you get is met with “just carry on breastfeeding!” with no practical help or advice on how to achieve this. My friend’s DD had a tongue tie too and it took I think 6 weeks for her to actually start gaining any weight at all but my friend just kept getting told “well keep on breastfeeding! Formula is bad! Express more!” etc etc.

A lot of women don’t breastfeed for as long as they want to and IMO the reasons they don’t are mostly, if not always, out of their control.

I understand why you feel the way you do. Just wanted to give you another pat on the back for expressing so long, because I know that can be hugely difficult and time consuming. I was never able to produce much for the breast pump (and i breastfed my kids until they were 1+ so it wasn’t a supply issue) and so wouldn’t have been able to do what you did. You did - and are continuing to do - a great job. 💐