To really want to know where I went wrong with breastfeeding?

[sunglassesintherain]

I don’t know if anyone might be able to help me process and understand where I went wrong.

My baby was born at just over 40 weeks after a failed induction and emergency section. I lost consciousness after the operation and so I didn’t get skin to skin with him. OH gave him a bottle of formula milk.

He slept pretty much constantly for twelve hours and when I tried to breastfeed him he just kept losing his latch and getting increasingly frustrated. We persevered for the three days we were in hospital but when he was weighed when we went home he’d lost 12% of his birth weight. We were put on a feeding plan with formula expressed breast milk and trying to feed from the breast.

I saw an independent lactation consultant and he had a tongue tie snipped (she did say it was only a tiny one so not sure it would have made all that much difference) and had community midwives come out but no one would really help.

I expressed for him for nearly three months but I am just trying to work out where I went wrong. Was it not getting skin to skin when he was born?

[Bostonbullsmumma]

I had a very similar experience with DC1. Emergency c-section under general anaesthetic. He had issues with his blood sugar so when I was completely out of it on morphine the nurse gave him formula with me sat there with a massive smile on my face not a clue what was happening! He then had to have formula top ups every 2 hours and stopped latching. I too found it very hard and didn't realise how much I wanted to bf him until I couldn't. Had lots of regret and felt I'd given up to soon. I breast fed DC2 fine- no problems but his birth was not traumatic after an elective c section. Please don't think you could have done more- you have done fantastic- expressing for 3 months( I gave up after a few days!) and looking at my kids now no one would know one was formula fed and the other bf! You haven't gone wrong! I'm sure motherhood makes us feel guilty for everything!!

[reallyreallyborednow]

The claims that babies fast?
POSTED MULTIPLE FECKING TIMES
Stanford, Fed is Best, Medical Dictionary....

Maybe I’m as thick as you claim but the links to this you posted are a definition of fasting, and a link to stanford that babies lose weight. Nothing about your claims that they are starving and the weight loss is best avoided.

Do you have links to research articles or review papers that babies are fasting and it is better to supplement so they don’t lose weight?

[Sideofnoreturn]

Yeah @GhibliKhan I also can’t be bothered trawling back but please correct me if I’m wrong - what I took from your post about birth injuries and subsequent posts was that weight loss post birth shouldn’t happen, babies are hungry and starving (and scream because of this) and that we should give them formula to prevent this happening. Is that not actually what you were saying?

If that is what you were saying, it’s a load of rubbish.

[noscoobydoodle]

I get it OP. I wanted to breastfeed DD1 - I wouldn't have said it mattered so much but it just seemed to when she was born. She was born at term, a good weight, no pain relief, skin to skin. However she simply didn't want to latch, she was sleepy, lazy, not interested. We had advice from everyone and I've never had so many people touch my boobs! But no luck. I expressed, we used a syringe, a spoon, I became obsessed with expressing. She lost weight. I still don't know why it mattered so much, as I know fed is best etc, but it just did. I gave up expressing (I don't know how you did it for so long!) after a few weeks and switched to formula and she was fine-loved it. I knew it really wasn't a problem, but somehow I was gutted.
DC2 and DC3 latched straight away from birth and breastfed for 5 and 8 months respectively. They were born in the same way, similar weights etc and I didn't do anything different- It just worked (I could not have been more surprised when DC2 latched on!)
You didn't do anything wrong, please don't beat yourself up about it.

[Strikethrough]

The single biggest factor in being able to breastfeed is having support. It's a real shame that you didn't have the support you needed, OP, especially from the medical professionals (midwives etc.). Our midwives were absolutely brilliant, couldn't fault them, but I know that's nowhere near a universal experience. My sister was told that she would not be discharged until baby had taken a bottle (following a five day long induction), she was absolutely exhausted and desperate to get home and although, like you, she kept saying that she wanted to breastfeed she was not offered any help/advice/support for that, only told to give the bottle. When she got home she was beside herself because baby wouldn't latch so I went round and spent a couple of hours sitting with her (I was breastfeeding our eldest at the time). I told her that she could use shields if she needed to (in hospital they'd told her she mustn't because "baby will get less milk" - well yes if the baby can latch fine and doesn't need to use a shield then there's no point in using one but if baby can't latch and is therefore currently getting zero breastmilk out of the breast then a shield isn't going to reduce that is it ) and helped her try a couple of different positions and suggested the flipple technique and so on. If she'd not had me nearby she doesn't think she'd have been able to breastfeed, though, because she wouldn't have had any support at all. It's no wonder that you were unable to feed given the combination of complex factors (traumatic birth and so on) and lack of support.

I do wonder if you have some unprocessed trauma from your delivery and it might have sort of become focused on the breastfeeding? I do that when I'm stressed, fixate on one thing. All of the emotions you describe having are completely normal and understandable. A friend who has expressed for two dysphagic babies (can't coordinate their swallow reflex) warns new mothers against expressing because it is so hard, I'm sure she would understand your flashes of anger.

If you'd like to try breastfeeding a subsequent baby I'd recommend contacting your local infant feeding team in advance (ours come out and do antenatal visits and also come to see you once you're home with baby) and joining some Facebook groups (Breastfeeding Younger Babies and Beyond is a good one, there'll be lots). Make sure your partner is clued up on things (like some weightless being normal) and explain to him that you need him to be your supporter and advocate. If you have any friends who breastfeed/have breastfed than specifically ask them for their help in the early days, then of the professional support is still as lacking you will have some from other sources.

For what it's worth our baby breastfed like a dream but wouldn't sleep for toffee and it took me several months to bond with her. I think it is absolutely possibly to move on from a difficult start and put it behind you without it affecting your relationship going forwards (now aged 3 and we're thick as thieves).

[Peridot1]

My DS is now 19 so it’s a long time ago for me but like you I was determined to breast feed. I even gave birth in National Breastfeeding Week!

Like you it didn’t work. Like you I was really sad about it. For years.

Like you I seemed to have milk but he just wouldn’t latch. There wasn’t great support to be honest and I felt guilty for ages after that I didn’t persevere more.

Then three years ago DS was having issues with daily migraine and I took him to an osteopath. As part of his examination of DS he felt inside his mouth particularly the roof of his mouth. And he asked me had I breast fed. I said no. He struggled to latch. Apparently it was down to the shape of the roof of his mouth and he would never have been able to latch on properly. Cue DS aged 16 being completely mortified at the conversation about nipples and breast feeding. Cue 16 years of guilt disappearing.

Sometimes it just doesn’t work out.

Please don’t beat yourself up.

Disclaimer- I haven’t read the whole thread but have read the OP’s posts.

[Somethingsnappy]

@GhibliKhan

Anyway, I dispute the notion that I'm derailing, since I think that the main problem behind why OP and women in the same boat feel guilt about feeding is the lack of proper info about the positives and negatives of all types of feeding, which I'm trying to address.

However, you'll be relieved to hear that I'm done, anyway - mainly because so many other posters don't seem to be able to read properly, not helped by not knowing what lots of simple words mean.

Or..... We understand exactly what you are trying to say and have pulled you up on it.

[Horehound]

@GhibliKhan

The claims that babies fast?
POSTED MULTIPLE FECKING TIMES
Stanford, Fed is Best, Medical Dictionary....

Jesus H Christ.

I'm hiding the thread before I blow a gasket

Tbh you are the one with the issue communicating if so many of us can't comprehend you....

[sunglassesintherain]

It is normal for babies to lose weight after birth, I would agree there is not enough education about that. My husband got very panicky.

Many of you are very kind, I know formula is fine, but it isn’t what I had planned to do.

[reallyreallyborednow]

Cba to go through the thread and find quotes but it definitely read as though you were saying bf babies were starved the first few days, which was a bad thing and no weight loss is the ideal.

To me it seems like you are projecting your views of fasting and hunger.

Again, do you have any evidence to support these claims? I would like to read. Or is this all your unfounded opinion?

[Horehound]

@GhibliKhan

because your comment about normal not = good implies that it is then, bad..

It really, really doesn't.

The manner in which you've posted actually seems to indicate it does, otherwise what is the point in saying it?
Anyway, you've derailed this thread enough. It's not about fucking fasting or wherever it's about how the OP feels about how it's not worked out for her.

[Somethingsnappy]

Birth injuries are not 'normal' though. Injuries, by their very nature, are not normal. So your comparison was bizarre.

[Horehound]

@GhibliKhan

Normal does not necessarily = bad.

Not sure why you felt the need to add this, since no one has said it.

because your comment about normal not = good implies that it is then, bad...

[welshladywhois40]

Please don't think if it as doing anything wrong. I wanted to breastfeed both my babies but both had different issues.

My first was a sleepy baby who would just not latch and I spent 3 days with midwifes helping and I think we got one latch in three days.

Next baby was so different and I finally understood what they mean with a baby born rooting who latched immediately.

However after 6 days post my c-section I had no milk and 2 days of solid cluster feeding broke me.

After my first experience I so wanted to know why my son wouldn't latch and didn't get any answers.

To prepare for my second baby I saw a private lactation consultant and we made a 3 day plan which helped me feel more confident for this baby.

[reallyreallyborednow]

Yup - this is what I'm saying. If neither mother nor baby is too distressed by the fasting, then it's not a problem

It isn’t “fasting” though. The baby’s stomach is tiny, so it will feel full on the very small amounts of colostrum. In fact feeding it lots of formula may lead to weight gain, but overeating until your stomach is stretched and you feel sick is not a pleasant feeling either.

You have no idea whether that weight loss is a physiological trigger for other biomechanisms, food and appetite regulation is complicated.

Peddling the idea that we are starving bf babies in the first few days because they lose weight that they are supposed to is more misinformation. Is this all your opinion or do you have any published references you can support your theory with?

[Horehound]

Normal does not necessarily = bad.

[Horehound]

GhibliKhan

It may be 'normal' to lose weight in the first few days, but that doesn't mean it's good, does it? It's common to have injuries from childbirth - doesn't mean we shouldn't take steps to reduce or eliminate them

This is the most stupid thing I think I've ever read after being on Mumsnet for 10+ years.
Before a baby is born the put on weight and build up a reserve purely to sustain then for the few days after birth.
That's biology. The reason for this is because it does take some days for the milk to come in and obviously through the thousands of years of babies being born, our bodies know what to do whether that's the babies body or the mothers body. So no, you don't have to feed formula if the baby is generally well. Obviously there are circumstances when it is best if a baby is supplemented with formula but that doesn't negate from perfectly normal circumstances of baby weight loss whilst waiting for the milk to come in.
And comparing to birth injuries is just such a non comparison, it's actually bizarre you even went there.