To not want DSD to live with me?

[PinkFlamingoo]

Ok this sounds bad but my ex and I aren't together, currently living together until he finds somewhere else (probably with his gf).

We have just had a huge row because he's planning on leaving his 16 year old DD here with me along with the 3 kids we have together!!

As much as I love DSD she takes the piss, she's messy, doesn't work, does no housework, is nasty to the kids and just does whatever she wants when she wants. I can't cope with the stress.

I have told him it's not fair for him to dump her on me while he lives a nice life without the stress I'm dealing with!!
Apparently this is her "home" and it's not fair for me to kick her out!

I can't cope anymore, I'm crying right now and I don't know what to do.

AIBU or is he?

Have a frank conversation with DSD and her nan. If she stays with you she works or goes to college, pulls her weight around the house and is at least civil and preferably caring towards the other children. Treat her like an adult and have an agreement with her, and if she doesn't like it she can live with her dad/ apply for independent housing. Make it clear that you love her, but you don't have to put up with her. Make it clear that you want her nan to back you up (or take her off your hands).

Poor kid.
Make it clear that while you care about her, your priority will be the younger ones and keeping a roof over your head.
Yanbu, but the best thing for your dsd is probably to stay with you not her useless arse of a father, so turn her into a useful babysitter and competent young woman and launch her into the world in a year or two.

It's not the child herself who's the main stress.

It's the dynamic.

OP - has only been in her life 6/7 years out of 16
Not seen as a mother figure
Manipulated by those around her so can't discipline
Ex partner massively taking the piss

but the best thing for your dsd is probably to stay with you

But it’s very clearly NOT the best thing for the OP.

I think given you've tried it before and it didn't work, 100% do not let him leave the house without her.

OP while he's living with you why aren't you going out at evenings and weekends? No reason why he can't look after DC?

Unfortunately OP you are being walked over, you said upthread you wouldn’t see her in care, he clearly knows this and is playing on it.big time. You have also set a precedent for her staying as that’s what happened before.

And he’s done this before, you don’t just leave your DD at your ex’s house like she’s a pair of socks and he is not financially contributing to any of his DC’s

I think the help you need from this thread is strategies to get rid of both of them as quickly as possible, yes of course she’s welcome back for visits but you need to stop feeling any obligation to either of them.

@Howshouldibehave

So whose name is your house in? Where does he intend to move to and when?

You need to separate yourself from him as soon as you can-could that mean you and your children apply for a 3 bed council house and that forces a natural separation?

The house is currently in mine and ex name. When he moved out before we tried taking his name off but were unable to due to arrears. They have been cleared now so once he goes his name will be off as soon as. I pay all the bills in the house too

OP you need to take CONTROL and soon.

Get his name off your house and get him out.

Stop letting them treat you like this, you deserve better. 🌸

actually I dont think it IS the best thing for DSD to stay with OP. The EASIEST, maybe, but in the long run far from the best.

It sounds as if OPs ex is a manipulative emotional blackmailing shit, who gets nasty if challenged, and it seems as if, sad to say, DSD is following in the footsteps of the examples she has been shown, especially towards OP> Thats not a healthy dynamic to carry forward, and the parent/child parenting roles have already been set, so it would probably be too little too late for OP herself to have any impact in changed behaviour regarding her.

DSD seems to have decided she has left childhood, so if some kind of youth accommodation were available, that could be positioned as a positive step towards the independance she no doubt probably wants - plus has the benefiot of removing OP as the evil stepmother role.

It also lessens the impact of Shitty Ex and his absolutre fuckwittery and selfishness. And cuts off the chance for emotuional abuse via an errant teen who OP is unable to discipline. OP can then concentrate on putting good boundaries in place for the other 3 and not risk being undermined.

I would ask him to go, to get out asap. so he doesnt keep hanging around until convenient to him. And for gods sake make him take the kids, even if its only to McDonalds. Stop him coming over the threshold. And get the maintanance through CMS, you know he wont pay, as he has proven already.

I really wonder has your ex 'helped' dsd choose to stay at yours by making it obvious that it would be a pain for him if he had to look after her. I agree she should be put first - by her father.

I'd also say it is the perfect time for a 16 year old who is doing nothing at all to move in with her grandmother. She could do the shopping and help her out in different ways. She is doing nothing else useful.

The house is currently in mine and ex name.When he moved out before we tried taking his name off but were unable to due to arrears.They have been cleared now so once he goes his name will be off as soon as.

That’s good. When is he moving out?

If he and his daughter move, will you have to pay more bedroom tax?

The arrogance and cruelty of this man is staggering.
When you have time, get some good real life advice about next steps.

You really are in a bad spot here and he is taking advantage.
I know this isn’t the reason you posted and I don’t want to increase the level of shit form what’s already a really stressful situation. But: you are supplying DSD with tobacco and she’s under 18. You are an adult and whatever other responsibility you have for her, you really should stop doing that. Also, if your ex, you, dsd and your 3 kids are in a 4 bed house, surely you shouldn’t be getting bedroom tax deduction? Do they know he’s with you? If not, tell them. Someone near me recently got jailed for HB fraud over similar, you really, really don’t need that.
It’s impossible for strangers on the internet to know what’s for the best on DSD, though absolutely would speak to SS. You don’t have an obligation, and if ex can be persuaded to take her and do a good job, clearly the best. If not... she is your DCs sister, and they will watch what you do. You can only do what you can do though, and if taking her is beyond you then it is, and you shouldn’t get any judgment for that.

@NettleTea

actually I dont think it IS the best thing for DSD to stay with OP. The EASIEST, maybe, but in the long run far from the best.

It sounds as if OPs ex is a manipulative emotional blackmailing shit, who gets nasty if challenged, and it seems as if, sad to say, DSD is following in the footsteps of the examples she has been shown, especially towards OP> Thats not a healthy dynamic to carry forward, and the parent/child parenting roles have already been set, so it would probably be too little too late for OP herself to have any impact in changed behaviour regarding her.

DSD seems to have decided she has left childhood, so if some kind of youth accommodation were available, that could be positioned as a positive step towards the independance she no doubt probably wants - plus has the benefiot of removing OP as the evil stepmother role.

It also lessens the impact of Shitty Ex and his absolutre fuckwittery and selfishness. And cuts off the chance for emotuional abuse via an errant teen who OP is unable to discipline. OP can then concentrate on putting good boundaries in place for the other 3 and not risk being undermined.

I would ask him to go, to get out asap. so he doesnt keep hanging around until convenient to him. And for gods sake make him take the kids, even if its only to McDonalds. Stop him coming over the threshold. And get the maintanance through CMS, you know he wont pay, as he has proven already.

100% agree - said so upthread but Nettle put it better.

It's the EASIEST thing for DSD to say it is not the BEST. It is perpetuating an abusive dynamic which will harm her and her relationships in the future.

I think you showing her how adult boundaries and responsibilities work, OP, would really help her a lot more than letting her stay.

Also, as shown last time, if she says the abusive dynamics will continue and your other children will witness this. It is NOT good for them, it is NOT good for DSD and it is NOT good for you.

OP - her father must take her.

@Redburnett

This sounds very sad for the girl, if she has lived with you and her step siblings for many years. Much as i sympathise I feel her needs should come first.

Her needs can be met by her biological father.

The people reasonably suggesting that without Dad around to undermine the OP she might react better to some boundaries had no idea that it'd already been tried and tested. This comment makes zero sense. It is well meaning but incredibly naive for others to suggest that somehow the DSD will magically change and accept OP at age 16, just because her Dad moves out. That is never going to work - and is from people who have no idea of most step family dynamics. No extra information is required about nans or other family to know that!

OP is not her Mother, but she did choose to make a home and a family with a Man who had sole custody of a small child. Does that count for no level of responsibility at all? What would have happened to the poor girl if her Dad had fallen under a bus at any point in the last 10 years? Packed off to care because she's not the OP's?

I find the suggestion here that the first born child be cast out from the home she's grown up in as 'someone else's problem' because she's difficult (and who can blame her in this environment?) sickening, to be honest.

Agree.

I'm not a gambling woman but I'd confidently bet a large sum of money that this 16 year old was basically treated like an afterthought for pretty much all of her short, shit life.

It's not hard to see why she might be angry and lost.

No it is not OP's responsibility to deal with the mess now.

But OP has almost colluded in the shite parenting of the 16 year old by the shite dad - because it suited her to ignore his shittiness until he let down her and her kids now too.

@PinkFlamingoo

Ive tried to add rules in but it just doesn't work! She doesn't change, time and time again, she just gets worse. Mentally I cannot cope with it, it's causing me to be stressed!!

Then she will have to go and live with her Dad.

The sooner she, ex and his his GF grasp that, the better.

No more last chances; you KNOW it won't work. Frankly her behaviour is only going to get much worse .

You have enough on your hands with the smaller children; and they must be your priority now. Her example can only damage them.

@AbsentmindedWoman

OP is not her Mother, but she did choose to make a home and a family with a Man who had sole custody of a small child. Does that count for no level of responsibility at all? What would have happened to the poor girl if her Dad had fallen under a bus at any point in the last 10 years? Packed off to care because she's not the OP's?

I find the suggestion here that the first born child be cast out from the home she's grown up in as 'someone else's problem' because she's difficult (and who can blame her in this environment?) sickening, to be honest.

Agree.

I'm not a gambling woman but I'd confidently bet a large sum of money that this 16 year old was basically treated like an afterthought for pretty much all of her short, shit life.

It's not hard to see why she might be angry and lost.

No it is not OP's responsibility to deal with the mess now.

But OP has almost colluded in the shite parenting of the 16 year old by the shite dad - because it suited her to ignore his shittiness until he let down her and her kids now too.

Presumably you missed the bit where the dad moved out and left his daughter behind before? And OP cared for her alone, while the ex didn't come up with the promised financial contribution?

It really is a huge stretch to blame OP for any of this.

So could you sit down with dsd and say its like this, either you move in with your dad/ gran or I contact SS and say I can't look after you as you won't do as I say and both you and your dad feel I have no right to tell you what to do as I am not your parent. Then you will have to go into foster care if your dad doesn't want to care for you.

If you stay these are the rules

1. Your Dad has to sign over custody/care of you to me and he no longer has a say in how I bring you up. He has to sign over parental rights to me so I can make all decisions regarding your care, welfare and health.
2. If you want to live here with me there are house rules and consequences if you don't follow them and if you don't you will have to leave.
3. I am applying to the CSA for maintenance of all 4 of you.
4. If you don't want to go to school fine, but you must find a job or training course to do. No more sneaking around drinking, lying in bed all day. You have to hep with the other kids and chores around the house too.
5. Your Dad is no longer welcome here, you can go see him elsewhere - his place or anywhere else. Plus he needs to leave and not come back either

These are the rules, non negotiable, you either obey or leave and go to your Dad's or Grans. Hopefully she will decide to stay and buckle down, but you will have to be on her back and not let her away with anything, or her father either for that matter. He can fuck right off the useless twat.
But of course that's only if you decide that's what you want to do and make it a 3 month agreement, renewed every 3 months or cancelled and she can go live with her Dad or Gran if she starts acting up.

Wow what a shit show this is. I get where you are coming from, I don't know how council tenancys work but if you are paying all bills and can prove it is there no way he can be removed? I'd be giving him a deadline to be out with DSD, but he currently has you over a barrel. There must be something you can do surely?

Once you have that aspect sorted, I'd be registering DSD with SS as a vulnerable adult/young person who should be able to assist her if dad fucks off and leaves her.... Although his PR is til 18 I think.

@Howshouldibehave

The house is currently in mine and ex name.When he moved out before we tried taking his name off but were unable to due to arrears.They have been cleared now so once he goes his name will be off as soon as.

That’s good. When is he moving out?

If he and his daughter move, will you have to pay more bedroom tax?

No, bedroom tax won't be affected

@NettleTea and @IloveJKRowling I totally agree. Leaving the OP and her children (who people seem to completely forget) out of it, there is no way that this is best for the DSD.

In fact having this much power but also facing rejecting by your parents at age 16 is a recipe for a complete disaster. It’s much worse now her father has no loyalty at all to the OP, his daughter will learn that women are only there for playthings or to do a man’s work for him, like her Nan. She will know that she can do anything in the home as the OP cannot discipline her, and will be able to cause quite a stink if OP tries because her father will be even less likely to back up the OP and more likely to undermine it. Anything the DSD faces, like trouble at school, with boyfriends, with life, she will have to face alone as she rejects any parenting off her step mum. No child really wants to be the cause of upset, and she will now just how her behaviour is stressful for everyone, but be unable to stop it as she’s caught herself in her own trap.

The DSD will be in a void within the OPs home, resentful of her step siblings, acting out, rejecting any boundaries or rules. Her mental health will plummet. It won’t be easy with her Dad, but at least it takes away the confusing and manipulative dynamics of the OP / Ex rejecting parenting triangle. At least there is some chance that her and her father will be forced to have some kind of relationship, or at least to come to terms with it for DSD. When she’s 18 DSD could think about whether she just wants to forge her own future with friends instead of her rejecting, dysfunctional family.

And if DSD does go with her father than she may well at some point in her life, with the respect of distance, make some peace and good relationships with her ex step mum and step siblings.

@thequeenoftarts

So could you sit down with dsd and say its like this, either you move in with your dad/ gran or I contact SS and say I can't look after you as you won't do as I say and both you and your dad feel I have no right to tell you what to do as I am not your parent. Then you will have to go into foster care if your dad doesn't want to care for you.

If you stay these are the rules

1. Your Dad has to sign over custody/care of you to me and he no longer has a say in how I bring you up. He has to sign over parental rights to me so I can make all decisions regarding your care, welfare and health.
2. If you want to live here with me there are house rules and consequences if you don't follow them and if you don't you will have to leave.
3. I am applying to the CSA for maintenance of all 4 of you.
4. If you don't want to go to school fine, but you must find a job or training course to do. No more sneaking around drinking, lying in bed all day. You have to hep with the other kids and chores around the house too.
5. Your Dad is no longer welcome here, you can go see him elsewhere - his place or anywhere else. Plus he needs to leave and not come back either

These are the rules, non negotiable, you either obey or leave and go to your Dad's or Grans. Hopefully she will decide to stay and buckle down, but you will have to be on her back and not let her away with anything, or her father either for that matter. He can fuck right off the useless twat.
But of course that's only if you decide that's what you want to do and make it a 3 month agreement, renewed every 3 months or cancelled and she can go live with her Dad or Gran if she starts acting up.

This is not good for OP.