To think ds was entitled to say the teacher was wrong

[challengerequired]

Ds has an EHCP and as a consequence has a teaching assistant in some lessons.
Today this teaching assistant kept him behind after one lesson because ds had told her that he thought her answer to a question was wrong. She told him never to do that again, as it would confuse the girl next to him.
Aibu to be annoyed? 1 - because I think she's his TA so the other girl doesn't really come into it
2 - because a child should not be discouraged from challenging opinions? I think she should have used it as an opportunity to ask him why he thought she was wrong - get a conversation out of it?

[Spanglemum]

I disagree with others in that if a child has an LSA as part of an ECHP/statement, then that person is there for that child. Obviously they interact with the other children and help the child with their social skills etc but it really annoys me when schools 'double up' on LSAs. My children both have one to one support because they need it.

[User179335678]

As an ex-teacher I would be happy for students to quwstion me on my knowledge if they felt it was wrong. As long as they did so respectfully.
Having said that, I remember one student who wanted to question EVERYTHING I said... He wanted almost an argument or debate over so many things, even when I was 100% correct on things. It was very tiring and although he wasn’t rude in his execution of the challenge it was the sheer volume that made it rude. I had to be very clear in the end that he was to stop challenging me during whole class discussions as he was disrupting the lesson.
So perhaps there is more to this story. But if I were you I would encourage him to continue challenging people but to do so in a polite and respectful way. Also, teach him to pick his battles.

[DancesWithTortoises]

I agree with those saying that it sounds like the way he said it was the problem. Back the school, you do him no favours by condoning bad manners.

[TheCrowening]

@Jobsharenightmare

My step child's teacher was apparently embarrassed by it being pointed out that they (teacher) was spelling potato incorrectly (potatoe). I still remember it being noted in the homework book "potatoe has an e at the end". My step child kept spelling it (and other words correctly), getting "corrected" and TA told me that it was challenged in the class once and it embarrassed the teacher.

Teachers can be wrong. There isn't always an answer a child can give as to why "um because that's not how you spell it Miss".

I wonder too what the context was in your case though.

They should be embarrassed by that. Blimey.

I remember being told off by my scary English teacher aged 9 when I challenged her on a spelling. Now, spelling was something I was good at, and I used to always get full marks in tests. Except this one test, where the teacher insisted “seize” was spelled “sieze” because of the I before E rule. I said she was wrong, she shouted at me for daring to suggest such a thing and then spoke to my mum about it. My mum was having none of it.

[Creamcrackersandricecakes]

I think it's perfectly ok to question something a teacher has said, particularly if you KNOW that they are wrong, as long as you are polite about it. When I was doing my degree, (distance learning), I used the word 'cisgender' in an essay. When I got it back, the tutor had written in her their notes that they didn't know what 'that word' meant. Surely you go and look it up then? Another tutor asked us to write an essay from the point of view of a well known person, who could be real or fictional. I thought it would be interesting to write it as Harry Potter, (it was a psychology essay, concentrating on traumatic life events, so I thought I'd have lots to work with! I didn't mention any supernatural or magic based events, just the real life stuff like being orphaned and then abused by relatives). The mark I got was good, but the tutor's comments were, 'I don't know who this person is...I've never heard of them'. Not saying I expect everyone to have heard of HP, but surely Google is your friend here??? I didn't say anything though.

[challengerequired]

I'm not on the spectrum afaik

Just got more detail out of ds - they were doing a card sorting activity and the LSA (should not have called her TA) said the answer should be this. Which makes me wonder - why does she give her answer first? Why not let ds put forward his answer, then discuss it? Ds then disagreed with her - really doesn't sound like he was rude. In the end his answer was wrong, but I still do think this is good learning support.

They also had an issue in English where he didn't want to show what he'd written. She told him he must show her his work.

These two things happened Tuesday and Wednesday and Friday was the chat - so clearly not a case of misbehaviour that needed immediate response.

I have asked ds what's been going on, but I have not told him he's in the right or anything.

[SmileyClare]

I think sometimes a person with autism can demand too much factual accuracy when it's not required. Can you tell us the "mistake" that your ds pointed out Op?

For example, you can refer to a homogeneous group e.g. a species and say they have a particular genetic trait; Brown fur.That could be "wrong" because there are rare exceptions , e.g. albinism.

Or I could state that India has a population of 1.2 billion. Again not factually correct. That number is based on data rounded up to the nearest point billion.

[challengerequired]

*don't think this is good learning support

[OhKnackers]

I agree he should be allowed but teachers are sacred on here and you can never moan about them, even if you meet a useless one amongst a sea of wonderful ones, you can moan about doctors, nurses, neighbours, friends, mothers and MILs, solicitors and shop workers. But not teachers because they are ALL astoundingly amazing. By the way I do realise most are great but it seems that when something is said about teachers on here no one can ever admit that there is occasionally just shit teachers.

[Sirzy]

@Spanglemum

I disagree with others in that if a child has an LSA as part of an ECHP/statement, then that person is there for that child. Obviously they interact with the other children and help the child with their social skills etc but it really annoys me when schools 'double up' on LSAs. My children both have one to one support because they need it.

That will very much depend on the wording of the plan.

Ds has 1-1 and it is worded to mean he has 1-1 for 25 hours a week during lesson time.

Some children will need extra support but not necessarily on a 1-1 basis or for as long so may have “small group work” or “x hours of teaching assistant support” written in so it wouldn’t necessarily be 1-1

Sadly many plans are written in a way whereby even if 1-1 is needed it’s not guaranteed

[challengerequired]

The joke is I am a teacher - not a perfect one though, and know plenty who are rubbish!

[skirk64]

Your update makes it sound more and more like the LSA was reasonable here. It's not for you to question their methods, in some cases it is right for the teacher to share their answer first. And the fact that the child was wrong with their challenge suggests they need to think before they question in future. A child who believes they are right can be arrogant and rude (not necessarily saying they were in this case), especially when they turn out to be wrong. As you say in your OP, your son's behaviour has an effect on others' learning.

The fact the misbehaviour was not confronted until after the event is unsurprising, it shows the LSA was doing their job. They probably wanted to consult others on what the best course of action was rather than rush into a judgment. I suspect you would have been unhappy if they had kept him behind immediately after the event.

Not sure why you put an eyeroll after I'm not on the spectrum afaik - unless you have been assessed by someone who is qualified to do so, you wouldn't necessarily know that you were. There are many undetected mental illnesses and other conditions out there.

[Branleuse]

Quick email to the SENCO then I think, asking if there are any issues you should be aware of, as seems to be a misunderstanding of his needs with this one lsa and find out if shes aware of his diagnosis. Has she worked with him long? Maybe shes not a good fit for him, although not much you can do about that I guess.

Or tbh, if it was my 14 year old, id tell him that he needs to give the lsa a chance and to try working constructively with her, which means showing her his work, even if hes not proud of it, and not being too confrontational

[challengerequired]

Eyerolling was for someone presumably thinking they can put forward a diagnosis over the internet, based on what exactly?

[Branleuse]

I dont think anyone was trying to diagnose you. They just asked.
Its not an insult

[AccidentallyOnPurpose]

@Branleuse

I dont think anyone was trying to diagnose you. They just asked.
Its not an insult

It was a twatty comment and completely irrelevant.

[challengerequired]

This LSA has been working with him since September
She's still in training.
We talked recently about something different and she said that on the first day she met he had been so happy and smiley, but since then he'd been so much more difficult.
The thing is, he's not there to make her life easy is he? He's a teenager on the spectrum who also has a physical disability. It's her job to find a way to build a relationship with him. This doesn't mean I condone rudeness or anything. But his previous LSA knew how to talk to him and how to win his affection, as does his drama teacher - it's possible!
I told her she needs to for example show a bit of interest in his obsessions - but I feel she's not taking that on board.

[challengerequired]

What I mean is, she's an apprentice- this is her first position

[Sirzy]

The not wanting to show her his work makes me wonder if he is struggling with the fact he needs extra support?

[Heyha]

You've probably seen this play out for real in the classroom at some point OP, as have I. Think it just needs someone to sit down with the two and say to your DC, don't be afraid to challenge but do think about good ways in which to do so. And to the TA to allow the student to make their own mistakes as part of their learning and/or accept that maybe the student is right in occasion!

I make mistakes when teaching and not all of them are deliberate 😂 I find the way to deal with it is to praise up the student who spots it for their attention and good understanding but you do have to be confident and secure in your role to be able to do that genuinely I find and maybe the TA in this case isn't. Not making excuses as being a TA to a ND student should already require a level of tact and understanding but I can see how it's come about! I have worked with some TAs who have felt it was a poor reflection on them if 'their' student gets things wrong and it can take a long time to get them to relax enough to get the balance and allow the student to find their own way sometimes.

[challengerequired]

We had also agreed after our talk we'd keep email contact if any issues arose - so why didn't she email me about this?

[SmileyClare]

Ok thanks for your update. I think your son may be too focused on who is right, who is wrong in the educational task but has overlooked the right way to behave in this type of situation?

It's possible your son querying an answer (although valid) was interrupting the flow and disrupting the learning task? Does he have a tendency to interrupt or labour a point, get agitated, loud or combative?

It's also possible that his support assistant isn't very qualified or experienced in dealing with autistic behaviour and ways of thinking. Many are given a short induction and straight into the role.

As a couple of stand alone events, I wouldn't blow this up onto an issue unless it's on going and impacting your son's well being and progress.

[AccidentallyOnPurpose]

@challengerequired

*don't think this is good learning support

Just have a chat/email with the SENCO . If he's 14 I'm sure you've been here many times before. Nothing wrong with discussing it and wanting to clear any misunderstandings for DS's sake and his LSA's. If their working relationship deteriorates because of small things like this adding up, nobody wins or has a good day.

[Daphnise]

Why are you getting so involved? It's just an everyday exchange at school. I hope your child isn't a talebearer. Helicopter parents.....

[challengerequired]

Sirzy, he does want to be independent and he is actually doing well academically. We had discussed that a light touch approach in supporting him would be good!