To not understand what the 'woke' brigade is?

[Ayla182]

Really confused about what it is

Not Lawrence (Laurence?) Fox.
In which case I’d probably be quite happy to be considered woke

[quote Helleofabore]Maybe this is good to post on here.

[/quote] Didn't realise Barack said all of this - new found respect for him. Although he always seemed like a well-balanced thinker. Haven't heard Michelle say something like this so I'm interested to know if they differ on it or not.

Also, the problem I saw in the video is Yara Shahidi is of the 'woke kind' he's talking about - and I'll guess some of the audience members too - so it must have been awkward there.

@Violaaa

My understanding is that older generations use it to put down the younger people who seek change and want more tolerance and acceptance.

The older generation think they are right and it's a bit like when they all hated the gays in the 80s but young people didn't or when the older generations didn't like Indians or black people.

Young people are generally more tolerant but older generations look at them in a condescending way and call them woke.

On MN woke means anyone who accepts and is kind to trans people

Seriously? Read your post back and reflect on how utterly ridiculous and immature it is.

I forgot to add that woke means "ageist and contemptuous of anyone with lived experience, particularly women over the age of 30"

irelate

It was an interesting talk (I have seen longer versions. He basically tells the audience that they spread intolerance with their lazy virtue signaling.

We see it on MN a lot on many feminism threads. People come and plop down a whole lot of shaming in their posts but never, ever add anything meaningful to the thread.

I always think of this video when I see it.

Y11 male pupil rocks into the female toilets at school. Banging on doors and and shouting.
He shouted ‘I’m identifying as a women’ before he did it.
Young females terrified. Parents complained.
School reacted with ‘gender is protected’
Not sex.

*Ayla182
Can I ask what is politicall corectness I hope I am not being annoying!

Really?
Now I know you're taking the piss.*
Did you miss Ayla's comment on page one that English is not her first language?

Ayla, political correctness appeared about 35 years ago. Spoken and written anguage had to be cautious in using words that might offend others whether those of the other sex, visible minorities, persons with disabilities, etc.

It started as a way to try and avoid offending others but lost its way when not being politically correct was considered a fault and the person who was not PC could or would be called out by others for their inappropriate behaviour.

"Woke" is a type of PC behaviour often seen in younger people. There is nothing wrong with being young and nothing wrong with holiding strong views, but when a lack of critical thinking is not used to develop those views that's when the problems start.

You mentioned the backlash following the announcement on the train. The person who called out LNER for their supposed bad behaviour is a young man who claims he is nonbinary, and using the words "ladies and gentlemen" did not acknowledge his nonbinary self.

Humans come in two sexes, female and male. A nonbinary person may say they do not "feel" female or male, but notwithstanding those feelings they will have a sexed female or male body throughout their life. Asking (or demanding) special consideration because of feelings with the expectation that others will acknowledge and (oh dear) validate those feelings is woke behaviour.

The word "Karen" is now used as an insult to older women for a number of reasons, one of which is that older women are viewed by too many people as having no place in society. The phrase "OK, boomer" is a lazy insult used by younger people again to belittle those who are older and may have learned a few things in their lives.

Clarity in language is important as is the ability to think critically. Along with that we can't lose the need to acknowledge reality, with part of the problem these days the determination by some to think that humans can change sex - which we know they cannot do.

Often it's necessary to listen to an argument one doesn't agree with in order to formulate one's views - the wokerati would be wise to learn this useful trick sooner rather than later.

@Helleofabore Thanks for the video, I'm going to watch the full one - found it on YouTube.

I also saw that Yara had to comment on the backlash (Don't know if it was but she was asked about it and it was called a 'controversy') because of what he said and I think she did a good job, given she seemed like she was defending him while dodging bullets and trying to be true to her own views.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/yara-shahidi-criticism-obama-call-culture-comments-1251959/amp/

In response to the controversy, Shahidi told THR: “Being that I was part of the 75-minute conversation that preceded it and then followed it, it really was a moment in which I feel like people chose two sentences of what was said. There is something to be said for the importance of accountability. But I think accountability culture is different than call-out culture.”

She continued: “There’s one thing to be doing something as a force of action and realizing that me being a part of a mass online movement does something, and then there’s still a tendency that we have to acknowledge to criticize people with no sort of solution in mind and to be overly nitpicky with no metric for growth of what we expect in return. And so, I think he addressed the nuance. Really, his comments to me were about the importance of action. Action can look different for everybody, but really acknowledging, ‘When are you taking action and when are you content just identifying the problem?’”

@Wearywithteens

“Violaaa My understanding is that older generations use it to put down the younger people who seek change and want more tolerance and acceptance.

The older generation think they are right and it's a bit like when they all hated the gays in the 80s but young people didn't or when the older generations didn't like Indians or black people.

Young people are generally more tolerant but older generations look at them in a condescending way and call them woke.

On MN woke means anyone who accepts and is kind to trans people”

You are 100% right and anyone born before 1980 is just automatically racist, homophobic and intolerant because they’re older than you. You sound like an utter genius who is so kind and tolerant. Not like those ‘older people’ who go around with their eyes closed and have no brain function and are just utterly bigoted through and through. Young people like you know everything.

Fuck me - you want a working definition of the self inflated, naive, laughably hypocritical, utterly ignorant, not-thought-through views of the woke - violaaa has nailed it.

🤣🤣🤣😍

I am an utter genius who is kind and tolerant. And also knackered 'cause it so often seems to go one way.

Woke is one if many words i see all the time on mn and i have no clue what it means. See also cis and gender critical. And if you ask you get some smart arse ripping the piss. So i dont ask.

Well, it’s one of those words I only ever see on MN but never in RL. Same until recently with the irritating use of the name ‘Karen’ as an insult towards middle-aged women. Then I heard my DD1 (12) using it having heard it on you-tube. I asked her how she would feel if her name was used in that way? She got my point. (She’ll probably learn the word ‘woke’ soon enough too.

Basically, the MN world isn’t RL. So you really shouldn’t automatically assume FAUX-NAIVETY when a poster asks what one of those terms mean. Especially when they’ve said that English isn’t their first language.

It’s a term that means you are awake to issues usually relating to equality for minority groups (another way of saying politically correct), that has been hijacked by the right, thus undermining the genuine concerns and issues affecting marginalised people. It seems to me that it is used by those in power/privileged groups when they feel threatened by anything that challenges the status quo and their “natural right” to be in a position of power. Being “anti- woke” comes from a place of fear- they are afraid of what they don’t know or understand and the disempowerment that a more equal society would bring for those who view their superior position as a “god given right”.

If it's relating to issues for minorities, it's excluding any groups such as women who are not minorities but are harmed

To me, 'woke' as a pejorative term relates to the absolute refusal to accept there is any nuance in subjects like gender identify, or acknowledgement that people may have opinions that you don't like, without needing for them to be cancelled or for it to be 'literal violence'. I blame TikTok (I have a woke teen).

Yes - correction: replace minority with marginalised.

@Sinthie

It’s a term that means you are awake to issues usually relating to equality for minority groups (another way of saying politically correct), that has been hijacked by the right, thus undermining the genuine concerns and issues affecting marginalised people. It seems to me that it is used by those in power/privileged groups when they feel threatened by anything that challenges the status quo and their “natural right” to be in a position of power. Being “anti- woke” comes from a place of fear- they are afraid of what they don’t know or understand and the disempowerment that a more equal society would bring for those who view their superior position as a “god given right”.

I am left wing and anti woke. I believe in the enlightenment principle of freedom of speech and I think that people are oppressed on the basis of class. I believe the woke brigade reinforces this racial categorisation of the 19th century and ignores the comlexities of world history. I also believe it is US-centric and doesn't take into account how power dynamics have played out in places with different histories.

This article actually seems to explain it from the origin to the new version. Although some people do use it in a different way.

www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/woke-what-mean-meaning-origins-term-definition-culture-387962/amp

Interesting to know that Boris said "There's nothing wrong with being woke" [I agree, if we're talking about the original version] in response to a question about Joe Biden; and the word has been added to the dictionary.

public.oed.com/blog/june-2017-update-new-words-notes/

Changing the name of a Christmas festival to a winter festival so people of other faiths aren't offended is often given as an example of political correctness.

And it's a myth. I can't swear that it's never happened anywhere; but the example that is commonly given involves Birmingham supposedly changing the name of 'Christmas' to 'Winterval' in 1998. In fact, Winterval was a 40-day combination of events for Christmas (referred to as such), New Year's Eve, Diwali, and various commercial and charitable events. It was called Winterval, because it included lots of different events continuing way beyond Christmas, through a significant part of the winter.

Is there much difference between the woke and snowflakes? I’ve always thought that they’re used against (mainly young) people in the same derogatory way. In the same way that ‘Karen’ and ‘Ok, boomer’ is really. I could see very similar arguments on a different forum from people trying to say that it’s okay to call women ‘Karen’s’ by justifying it through stereotypes. I think a lot of the young generation are actually acting very similarly to the ‘anti-woke/ anti snowflake generation’ people. It just seems like name calling.

'Woke' originally meant people who were awake and alert to social injustices (especially, I think, used by African-Americans, to refer to being alert to racism).

Nowadays, it seems to be used almost exclusively as an insult. I've occasionally seen it used by people on the left to refer to fellow-leftists, who are so preoccupied with the culture wars that they ignore bread-and-butter issues. But most commonly it's used by right-wingers, to imply that all social liberals, or just those who disagree with them on anything, are ignorant at best, posturing hypocrites at worst.

The almost exact equivalent used by left-wingers to insult right-wingers is 'gammons'. I'm not really a fan of either term.

@ddl1

'Woke' originally meant people who were awake and alert to social injustices (especially, I think, used by African-Americans, to refer to being alert to racism).

Nowadays, it seems to be used almost exclusively as an insult. I've occasionally seen it used by people on the left to refer to fellow-leftists, who are so preoccupied with the culture wars that they ignore bread-and-butter issues. But most commonly it's used by right-wingers, to imply that all social liberals, or just those who disagree with them on anything, are ignorant at best, posturing hypocrites at worst.

The almost exact equivalent used by left-wingers to insult right-wingers is 'gammons'. I'm not really a fan of either term.

This.

Where woke is, is where you are afraid of saying your views or saying anything in case you get cancelled out. Cancelled out means you can lose your job, your status in society and even friends and family. To me woke is very dangerous because you can't argue, you can't reason and even worse you can't express your views. People should be able to express their opinions and healthily (respectfully) discuss with people that don't. Woke brigade is a term that is used by those that don't like this new norm and use it to retaliate and end an argument as I say, you can't healthily discuss matters because there is no reasoning. I'm glad we can even discuss this term here but who knows, maybe next year MNHQ might cancel out (delete) discussions where this word is used.

Sorry I meant respectfully discuss views and opinions with those that agree on those views.

Ffs that don't agree with those opinions. Sorry I wiped baby sick from the carpets. I swear I have carpal tunnel I have numb wrists and can't type