Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand what the 'woke' brigade is?

275 replies

Ayla182 · 14/05/2021 17:09

Really confused about what it is

OP posts:
LizzieW1969 · 15/05/2021 14:12

I’m not, I was just challenging your accusation that the OP must have been feigning her ignorance, it’s a common accusation on here and I get fed up with it.

But yes, I’ll leave it now.

looptheloopinahulahoop · 15/05/2021 14:23

@MissTrip82

I’ve never heard anyone use the term ‘woke’ about other people who wasn’t a clear, obvious arsehole.

Piers Morgan uses it a lot.

Well I am a clear and obvious arsehole because I think the woke and rather unintelligent students who shut people (women) for being "cis and white" when she expressed the opinion (fact) that women have vaginas and tend to be physically weaker than men need their heads looking at.

And the university officials who have launched disciplinary action against the student involved.

Woke = making everything hate speech with which you don't agree.

looptheloopinahulahoop · 15/05/2021 14:24

(article in today's Times, I think it was Abertay university)

LolaSmiles · 15/05/2021 14:25

BaileysforBreakfast
I disagree about 'woke' being used to shut down debate. Once we establish that some people are more bothered about stoking their own and their friends' egos and congratulating each other on social media for ranting at the latest figure to 'deserve' a hate campaign, then we can get onto meaningful debate with a range of views, including views we might disagree with.

I'm left wing, but on the whole I don't see people with different political views to mine wanting to get people sacked for having different views, but do see the woke brigade doing that. On the whole I don't see centre right voters trying to silence people, or labelling labelling racists or bigots for having different views on immigration, but do see the woke brigade doing this. I don't see your typical, middle of the road Conservatives accusing people of bigotry or various isms/phobias for having different views to them on some social or economic issues. I don't generally see those who challenge woke virtue signalling telling women that they deserve to be murdered or sexuslly assaulted for having different views to them, but do see the woke brigade doing so.

The issue with the woke brigade is that they are warping the left into a fringe movement driven by culture wars and identity politics, with an unhealthy desire to frame themselves as bastions of all that is good in the world. Nobody wants to vote for a party or be involved with a group who believe in thought policing and make it quite clear they hold anyone with differing views with contempt.

IRelateToViewpointsNotPeople · 15/05/2021 14:25

@LizzieW1969 Fwiw, I don't think you were derailing the thread with your post.

It's interesting that some people would think a poster is being disingenuous but still answer their question. I mean, it's one thing if you're not sure.

But when you seem to be sure and still answer, fair play to them - I couldn't engage with a fake question. Why bother?

UrAWizHarry · 15/05/2021 14:28

There are people who have clearly veered too far into an ultra-PC zone where literally anything can be taken as an insult.

Too often though people do just want to shut down debate by screetching "woke" at people with legitimate points.

It's almost as if life is far more subtle than just gross generalisations.

catpoooffender · 15/05/2021 14:31

The 'woke brigade' is a dismissive term used by the likes of Piers Morgan to refer to people with liberal or socialist views. Seems to be used mainly in reference to transgender issues these days.

horizondawn02 · 15/05/2021 14:52

It’s something people like to use to try and offend people and tar everyone with the same brush. Often the people who use it tend to be arseholes

wotchhha · 15/05/2021 15:01

If you were woke enough to the internet, you'd know that she can google these terms and find out for herself.

And if you google woke you will get different opinions like here

Surfschool · 15/05/2021 15:58

I don't generally see those who challenge woke virtue signalling telling women that they deserve to be murdered or sexuslly assaulted for having different views to them, but do see the woke brigade doing so

That's a pretty awful thing to say. I am probably what you would call woke but I'm certainly not doing this. What a hideous thing to say.

SamW98 · 15/05/2021 16:20

@LolaSmiles

BaileysforBreakfast I disagree about 'woke' being used to shut down debate. Once we establish that some people are more bothered about stoking their own and their friends' egos and congratulating each other on social media for ranting at the latest figure to 'deserve' a hate campaign, then we can get onto meaningful debate with a range of views, including views we might disagree with.

I'm left wing, but on the whole I don't see people with different political views to mine wanting to get people sacked for having different views, but do see the woke brigade doing that. On the whole I don't see centre right voters trying to silence people, or labelling labelling racists or bigots for having different views on immigration, but do see the woke brigade doing this. I don't see your typical, middle of the road Conservatives accusing people of bigotry or various isms/phobias for having different views to them on some social or economic issues. I don't generally see those who challenge woke virtue signalling telling women that they deserve to be murdered or sexuslly assaulted for having different views to them, but do see the woke brigade doing so.

The issue with the woke brigade is that they are warping the left into a fringe movement driven by culture wars and identity politics, with an unhealthy desire to frame themselves as bastions of all that is good in the world. Nobody wants to vote for a party or be involved with a group who believe in thought policing and make it quite clear they hold anyone with differing views with contempt.

Absolutely this
catpoooffender · 15/05/2021 17:09

@Surfschool

I don't generally see those who challenge woke virtue signalling telling women that they deserve to be murdered or sexuslly assaulted for having different views to them, but do see the woke brigade doing so

That's a pretty awful thing to say. I am probably what you would call woke but I'm certainly not doing this. What a hideous thing to say.

Indeed. What a ludicrous sweeping statement.
BrumBoo · 15/05/2021 17:22

@Surfschool just because you don't, doesn't mean it's not a huge problem from those considered 'woke', especially in groups of trans-rights activists. It's very well documented. Unfortunately, there's a small crossover with the incel community as well, which of course makes it much worse. Ironic really, considering that it's TRAs that try and lump all Gender Critical in with the right wing..

LolaSmiles · 15/05/2021 18:42

That's a pretty awful thing to say. I am probably what you would call woke but I'm certainly not doing this. What a hideous thing to say
It's not awful. It's what is happening to women by people who claim to care about inclusion and equality.

Acknowledging that the woke brigade is especially intolerant at times is not saying that anyone who cares about social issues behaves that way.

The problem with the woke brigade is that they have this narrative of 'anyone who has my views is right, we are hated for just caring about social issues and we are the real victims here'. Their whole approach is based on their perceived righteousness and the need to have some boogyman to hate (usually anyone who expresses a view that isn't approved by group think).

Even on this thread, people have explained what they mean by woke brigade, have outlined why it is not the same as caring about social issues, and still there's post after post after post arguing that people hate those who care about equality, people who challenge woke virtue signalling are Tory/racist/homophobic/intolerant/bigoted.

If you care about social issues, are open to a meaningful debate, and don't run around yelling bigot at people who disagree with you then I wouldn't call you woke. In fact, I'd probably consider us kindred spirits on the same page.

Snoozer11 · 15/05/2021 18:54

It refers to people who are incapable of independent thought, who have a black anf white view of the world and who read from a script of "the Right way to think".

LangClegsInSpace · 15/05/2021 18:58

Like a PP I try not to use the word because it used to mean something different and good and has been coopted from the black rights movement.

However, here's a good example of 'woke brigade' behaviour by some Goldsmiths students, as described by Deptford People's Project:

Statement from Working class community workers from Deptford. We are attending the women’s meeting at the House of Commons today. We would like to offer an explanation as to why this is necessary. See below

After many years of working at grass roots within our community we have recently been made aware of an issue that directly effects the working class and women in our area.

You must understand we are not graduate activists or or women’s rights campaigners. We are community workers and our concerns regarding changes to the GRA come from a lifetime of personal experience and having worked with some of the most marginalise people in our area.

The majority of our recent projects have been working with rough sleepers, the homeless and those that have been excluded from society. The issues they face include: unsupported/ mental health illness, sexual violence and prostitution, childhood trauma and abuse...

domestic violence, poverty, ex care system issues, addiction, prison,rehab,homelessness and austerity.

The people in our community that we represent are the most likely to access/ be placed in sex segregated services.Some have and will access all of these services.

Our local political and community organisations have been infiltrated by a group of well meaning white middle class goldsmith (uni) students. These people although well intentioned have rail roaded many vital projects by introducing identity policies and intersectional thinking. They do this without truly understanding or experiencing working class issues.

Meetings we have attended for the purpose of discussing community housing projects and women’s wellness etc have been used as a platform to re educate working class people on the new academic language expected within our organisations.

As anyone from a working class back ground will tell you, these theories and ideologies rarely translate into working class communities.

The extremely small number of transsexual (I use the old term as this has a very different meaning to the university umbrella term currently thrown about) members of the community are and have always been excepted and protected by community organisations.

We are now informed that transgender people are being routinely abused (mis gendered) and should be protected above all other marginalised groups. All that has changed is privileged students have adopted a set of gender identities that allow them to be considered marginalised.

The people we encountered were far from marginalised. In fact they were highly educated, openly classist and aggressive.

This new politics doesn’t equate in our community or for the people we support. We are dealing with working class issues with severely marginalised people and the trans lobby is a gentrification of working class social and political movements. Note the difference between trans lobby and trans people who we support.

No one will discuss our concerns regarding self id. Our local Labour Party has refused to comment or debate with the working class people.

We are attending the meeting this evening as this is only place that is willing to discuss theses issues.

When we are being verbally abused and called fascists because we are concerned about the effects of policy change on marginalised people it is a direct attack on working class women and grass roots organisations.

when sharing information about this event and attempt to shut it down be aware that you are complicit in the silencing of not only women but working class people who have not afforded the privileged of a safe space or university education. Thank you x

LolaSmiles · 15/05/2021 19:01

Snoozer11
I agree with you.
People who are genuinely interested in resolving social issues would be open for a full debate, hearing a range of views, accept that people of different political views might have different opinions on how to tackle a social issue that all sides agree is a problem.

I don't agree with many Conservatives on most issues, but can accept that having different views on immigration doesn't make them racist bigots. They are people, capable of independent thought who have a different view to me.

You'd think with Brexit and the recent elections the left would start to realise that shouting down the majority of middle ground electorate as being bigots who need educating is an easy way to make themselves unelectable.

Whoarethewho · 15/05/2021 19:02

It is the counterpoint to people who keep saying things are racist or sexist when they obviously aren't. The woke brigade insult was a direct repost to people playing the race and sexism card in an equally insulting manner.

LangClegsInSpace · 15/05/2021 19:12

Another example:

News story: Danish man in South Africa charged after police find 21 pieces of female genitalia in his freezer

Commentator: This story is horrible, but the inherent cissexism is even worse. It doesn't even say what they found, but we collectively understand and assume what 'female genitalia' are. Once you learn what cissexism and bio essentialism are, you spot them everywhere. It's grim.

To not understand what the 'woke' brigade is?
catpoooffender · 15/05/2021 19:28

You see these are examples of extreme views. Like with everything else, there will always be people who push the boundaries too far. My problem with the term 'woke brigade' is that is thrown around willy nilly and can equally apply to someone who 'uses the race card' as a PP put it as it can to someone like in this example who thought that the term 'female genitalia' was worse in its 'cissexism' than the horrible crimes that are the subject of the article.

This is a debate that will never end because we are so quick to hear someone's view on one topic and immediately assign them to one camp or the other. You're either woke or a bigot these days, there's nothing in between.

LangClegsInSpace · 15/05/2021 19:32

Another example:

Activists attacking Hibo Wardere for not using 'inclusive' language in her tireless campaigning against FGM

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4170253-Anti-FGM-campaigner-Hibo-Wardere-comes-under-attack

So yes, there are those like Piers Morgan who use the term to refer to anyone who cares about social issues full stop. But there are also a lot of left leaning people who use the term, who not only care about social issues but who are working hard to effect change.

At best, this 'brigade' waste our time and get in the fucking way. At worst they have a chilling effect on freedom of speech through threats to people's livelihoods and good standing and threats of violence. These are not idle threats, sometimes they follow through.

Also we'll be stuck with the tories for as long as labour remains in their thrall because nobody's buying what they're selling.

As I said though, I try to avoid the term 'woke'. I prefer 'blue-haired stasi'.

Proudboomer · 15/05/2021 19:41

Another example. Shouting white privilege as they assume that because someone is a conservative political radio host of any years standing they must be white and their carer success is a result of white privilege.
Identity politics without even nothing to check their identity.

Ikeasucks · 15/05/2021 19:55

It’s the intolerant controlling perpetually offended who can be quite damaging and vicious. Tracey Ullman explains vimeo.com/284986055

LangClegsInSpace · 15/05/2021 20:07

@catpoooffender

You see these are examples of extreme views. Like with everything else, there will always be people who push the boundaries too far. My problem with the term 'woke brigade' is that is thrown around willy nilly and can equally apply to someone who 'uses the race card' as a PP put it as it can to someone like in this example who thought that the term 'female genitalia' was worse in its 'cissexism' than the horrible crimes that are the subject of the article.

This is a debate that will never end because we are so quick to hear someone's view on one topic and immediately assign them to one camp or the other. You're either woke or a bigot these days, there's nothing in between.

Yes these views are extreme but they're alarmingly common and they are absolutely having a chilling effect on political discourse and reasonable debate.

You're either woke or a bigot these days, there's nothing in between.

Did you read my previous post with the account from Deptford People's Project? Which camp is the woman who wrote those tweets in? Woke or bigot?

Hibo Wardere - woke or bigot?

Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie?
Alison Bailey?
Jenny Murray?
J K Rowling?
Keira Bell?
Julie Bindel?
Linda Bellos?
Raquel Rosario Sanchez?

(OP - google these wonderful women)

I could go on and on with this list.

You say 'this is a debate that will never end' but there are important debates, that affect all our human rights, that we have barely been permitted to begin. Because of this bunch of spoilt, aggressive, authoritarian, supposedly left-wing activists.

I loathe Blair but he was bang on in the article linked upthread. Unless the mainstream left sorts itself out and stands up to these bullies, we'll just have right wing governments forever.

So I won't use woke but I will say wake the fuck up.

LangClegsInSpace · 15/05/2021 20:15

That was a general 'wake the fuck up' and not specifically aimed at you, catpoooffender Smile

Swipe left for the next trending thread