To not understand what the 'woke' brigade is?

[Ayla182]

Really confused about what it is

I loathe Blair but he was bang on in the article linked upthread. Unless the mainstream left sorts itself out and stands up to these bullies, we'll just have right wing governments forever
My feelings entirely.
I've never been Blair's biggest fan, but his assessment of the situation is spot on.
Unfortunately, we both know the fact Blair has said it means that it will be automatically dismissed because of who he is, which is standard for extremists with an inability to consider other views or they might be wrong. It's another version of "you're a bigot because you agree with A and A said this other opinion on a different topic, ergo A is a bigot and so are you". The idea that people can agree on some issues and strongly disagree on others is is alien concept to those who consider themselves the authority on truth and acceptable thinking. The idea that someone is a bigot for associating or agreeing with someone accused of wrong thought is a worrying side of certain left wing virtue signalling brigades.

If you don’t know what they are then you belong to them

I'd classify women who cry sexism/misogyny at every turn, when it's not, as woke (that new kind) and part of the "woke brigade" too. Those who want people sacked, banned or to attend a course for saying "Good morning Mrs..." or "Say thank you to the nice lady" or whatever.

I know feminists typically don't say this because it's used mainly for trans issues but if people are using "woke" to classify those who shut down debate, cancel others who've done xyz, don't use critical thinking and nuance, play the whatever card everything and always see others who act a certain way as whatever, etc then it has to apply to everyone who does the same, not just who you want or who you're in a fight with.

I do think it's in poor taste to take the word and co-opt it when other words will do, the same way I think people shouldn't co-opt the name, Karen. And to insist your new usage of it is right and therefore you'll keep using it is similar to those who insist on using Karen because they don't mean someone whose name is Karen.

Honestly, I find a lot of people who're on opposite sides to be the same type of people who just happened to be on opposite sides. After all, there's something to be said about similar personalities clashing. Everyone is pointing fingers and insisting their way is right. No one wants to compromise.

On the whole I don't see centre right voters trying to silence people, or labelling labelling racists or bigots for having different views on immigration, but do see the woke brigade doing this. I don't see your typical, middle of the road Conservatives accusing people of bigotry or various isms/phobias for having different views to them on some social or economic issues. I don't generally see those who challenge woke virtue signalling telling women that they deserve to be murdered or sexuslly assaulted for having different views to them, but do see the woke brigade doing so.

It does happen on both sides, though. Not - by definition- 'typical middle of the road' people on either the left or the right. But certainly by 'culture warriors' on both sides. The left and even centre-left are accused of 'sneering' at working-class Tory voters and 'envy' of rich ones and pre-emptively accused of 'calling me stupid! calling me a racist!' if they dare to express any disagreement. Remainers have been accused, not only by individuals but in the press, of being 'saboteurs' and 'enemies of the people'; and some people have defended death threats against prominent Remainers like Gina Miller on the grounds that such people are 'suppressing democracy'.

Yes, it does happen the other way round too - I've seen examples fairly close up -but it certainly isn't only the 'woke' who engage in cancel culture and hatred of anyone who has a different opinion.

‘Fuck off Jamie’ 🤣

@IRelateToViewpointsNotPeople

I'd classify women who cry sexism/misogyny at every turn, when it's not, as woke (that new kind) and part of the "woke brigade" too. Those who want people sacked, banned or to attend a course for saying "Good morning Mrs..." or "Say thank you to the nice lady" or whatever.

I know feminists typically don't say this because it's used mainly for trans issues but if people are using "woke" to classify those who shut down debate, cancel others who've done xyz, don't use critical thinking and nuance, play the whatever card everything and always see others who act a certain way as whatever, etc then it has to apply to everyone who does the same, not just who you want or who you're in a fight with.

I do think it's in poor taste to take the word and co-opt it when other words will do, the same way I think people shouldn't co-opt the name, Karen. And to insist your new usage of it is right and therefore you'll keep using it is similar to those who insist on using Karen because they don't mean someone whose name is Karen.

Honestly, I find a lot of people who're on opposite sides to be the same type of people who just happened to be on opposite sides. After all, there's something to be said about similar personalities clashing. Everyone is pointing fingers and insisting their way is right. No one wants to compromise.

I know feminists typically don't say this

Well then

'women who cry sexism/misogyny'?
'play the whatever card'?

This is your response to posts about extremely vulnerable poor people in SE London, FGM and a man caught with a sizeable collection of sliced off female genitalia in his freezer?

I do think it's in poor taste to take the word and co-opt it when other words will do

I completely agree with this. Which other words will do please? Ideally I'd like a word that puts clear water between me and the blue haired stasi and also people like you and piers morgan. Big stretches of clear water.

This is your response to posts about extremely vulnerable poor people in SE London, FGM and a man caught with a sizeable collection of sliced off female genitalia in his freezer?

Is this an actual question or have you made up your mind about it? I assume you have, considering the . Weird to conclude I was responding to something in particular when I didn't @ or quote anything but to clarify, I have no idea what you're talking about. It’s not my response to that quote. Don't think I've even read it here but I've probably missed some posts. I was thinking about people in the "woke brigade" and responding to the thread in general, like I've been doing.

Well then
Well do they? I'll retract what I wrote if they do.

'women who cry sexism/misogyny'?
'play the whatever card'?

Yes "whatever" being all the 'cards' that people say others play - didn't wish to single one out. How you singled those two lines out to claim it's my response to what-I-still-don't-know-where -it-was -written is well...interesting.

Which other words will do please? Ideally I'd like a word that puts clear water between me and the blue haired stasi and also people like you and piers morgan.

I thought you were being serious and was going to say that I have no idea which words will do because it's not my job to find a catch-all term for people, till I read "people like you and piers Morgan".

I would have asked what "people" you are talking about and how you came to that conclusion based my post but given the weird assumption of what I was responding to, cherry-picking what I wrote and the immediate "fuming" signals based on your incorrect perception; then the immediate leap to an acccusation...

Naaah! Not worth it to continue but it was great trying to chat with you for a few seconds though.

@LangClegsInSpace

*You're either woke or a bigot these days, there's nothing in between.

Did you read my previous post with the account from Deptford People's Project? Which camp is the woman who wrote those tweets in? Woke or bigot?*

My point is that you are labelled 'woke' or 'bigot' on the basis of one of your opinions (or in fact one of your comments), not that there actually is nothing in between. In reality most people are between the two.

My point is that you are labelled 'woke' or 'bigot' on the basis of one of your opinions (or in fact one of your comments),

Yes, the poster just nicely displayed this or something like it (since those words weren't exactly used but one can easily guess) by labelling me "people like you and Piers Morgan" just because of a comment - never mind that I wasn't actually saying/responding to what they thought.

Whatever Piers Morgan represents in the poster's mind, I assume it isn't "Woke".

[quote catpoooffender]@LangClegsInSpace

*You're either woke or a bigot these days, there's nothing in between.

Did you read my previous post with the account from Deptford People's Project? Which camp is the woman who wrote those tweets in? Woke or bigot?*

My point is that you are labelled 'woke' or 'bigot' on the basis of one of your opinions (or in fact one of your comments), not that there actually is nothing in between. In reality most people are between the two.[/quote]
That’s completely true isn’t it. It’s the pigeon holing of people that’s going on now. The assumption there’s no grey areas, no ability to change ones mind. You are either extreme left or a bigot. Those are the options and the latter might see you lose your job. So pick.

LolaSmiles On the whole I don't see centre right voters trying to silence people, or labelling labelling racists or bigots for having different views on immigration, but do see the woke brigade doing this.

Ah... this must be why I was called a 'woke leftist' (and being told to 'get a sense of humour') for calling out someone who made an anti-Semitic joke on our local FB page. I was probably 'virtue signalling' in their opinion, too

BaileysforBreakfast
You seem to have missed several posts where people have pointed out that caring about social issues and racism doesn't make someone a member of the woke brigade.

justanotherneighinparadise
I think most people accept there is a middle ground where most people fall. Unfortunately extremists seem to enjoy the tribalism of their side being utterly right and the biggest victim in the whole world.

You've got your right wing extremists who seem to think they're huge victims because casual racism and misogyny is no longer the norm, we know the types "you can't say anything these days without people being offended... I'm not racist but (insert something racist here).

Meanwhile on the left you have the self-rightous culture war and identity politics extremists who think they're oh so tolerant whilst their words and actions show deep intolerance to anyone of different views. They consider themselves the biggest victims because when people identify them as "the woke brigade" there's pages and pages of replies about how they're the ones who care about injustice, anyone who challenges this kind of group and behaviour nust be nasty right wing bigots who hate minorities, vote conservative and love Piers Morgan.
If anyone points out that most people care about social issues without resorting to online bullying, threatening women for speaking out, trying to get people sacked for wrong think, orchestrating hate campaigns for expressing a different views, promoting cancel culture, and yelling bigot (along with other sanctimonious tosh about how they're enlightened and tolerant), then this is very, very conveniently overlooked because it doesn't suit people who display this sort of behaviour to acknowledge it.
To acknowledge most people care about social issues means that some people lose the feeling of being special, and that wouldn't do.

Lola You seem to have missed several posts where people have pointed out that caring about social issues and racism doesn't make someone a member of the woke brigade.
No. I haven't actually. The point is that my own experience is that calling people 'woke' is used as a way of stifling discussion. I've already given examples of where this has happened to me. This is what is wrong with this ridiculous term. It has just become a generic insult used - I will say this again - to shut people up on SM. I am by no means 'woke' in the way you seem to define it, yet I've been accused of being so more than once on SM in an attempt to insult me/tell me to STFU.

Frankly, by using terms like 'woke brigade' you are lumping people together into a 'tribe', while knowing the square roof of fuck all about them beyond a single comment they have made. This terminology is unhelpful to debate and seeks to polarise.

The thread is someone asking what is meant by woke brigade.People have explained what is meant by that phrase. Many others have posted exhibiting exactly the sort of attitude and behaviours that others have described.

It's hardly unusual that humans have words for people who behave in a particular way that's similar to other people. When I was at university there was a colloquial name for the group of wealthy students who frequented the Union debating society and had a very narrow awareness of life outside their very, very privileged upbringing. Maybe everyone who acknowledged this group by their attitude and behaviour was a big old meanie who should refrain from identifying a group of people who act and behave in certain ways. 🤷‍♀️

How exactly should people refer to left wing extremists who pat themselves on the back for being amazingly tolerant whilst spend a huge amount of time showing contempt and intolerance to others in much of their interactions? I think language evolves and people generate words to sum up lengthy descriptions, and whilst I prefer a PP's witty 'blue haired stasi', it would be nice to know what those objecting to the 'woke brigade' label think should be used to refer to this particular group of people.

After all, it's hardly practical to write left wing extremists who pat themselves on the back for being amazingly tolerant whilst spend a huge amount of time showing contempt and intolerance to others in much of their interactions, and no that doesn't include you, nobody has said there's a problem caring about racism... no it's not a dig at you, we are talking about a particular group of people with a particular ideology, and particular behaviour, don't take it personally or say "BUT I DON'T DO THAT" because if you don't do any of the behaviour outlined earlier then quite clearly it does not refer to you, but the very fact you're offended at people identifying a group who behave in a particular way could suggest you are part of that group... each time someone wants to discuss the actions of a particular group of left wing extremists.

Or is the aim to remove any form of meaningful references to a particular group, so everyone has to avoid using any terms to speak about the group, whilst making it clear that only the group of people being referred to are talked about? That would be a chilling form of new speak, which amusingly is one of the main behaviours of a certain type of left wing activist.

I do think it's in poor taste to take the word and co-opt it when other words will do

To be honest I didn't know its origins and have learnt that on this thread.

And I take your point about "Karen" which I hate hate hate being used as an insult.

*You're either woke or a bigot these days, there's nothing in between

which is a complete nonsense as you can be very "right-on" about certain issues and not about others. For example, my ds is very lefty liberal about most things but is 100% against biological males taking part in womens' sport (with the slight grey area of sports where you don't have a physical advantage, fair enough). On the other hand he had a go at me for saying that tween/teen girls shouldn't wear clothes that show their bottoms. So is he a transphobic bigot or a member of the "woke" brigade?

How exactly should people refer to left wing extremists who pat themselves on the back for being amazingly tolerant whilst spend a huge amount of time showing contempt and intolerance to others in much of their interactions?

Well, that might be a legitimate argument if it was only ever used in that context. The point is that it isn't. It is a lazy and tiresome cliche.

That doesn't answer my question though.

If people aren't allowed to use the phrase 'woke brigade' (which I can take or leave for personal used but understand what is meant by it), how exactly are people meant to briefly refer to this particular group of so-called-liberal-and-inclusive extremists that includes those who cry bigot if anyone disagrees with them, those who seek to stifle debate, cancel and no platform speakers, those who orchestrate hate campaigns against public figures who hold different views, and at the most extreme end of this group, those who partake in campaigns on the Internet that cause women women be the subject to threats of rape, sexual assault and murder, and those who sit back knowing this happening but not condemning it, and glossing over it because the person has committed wrong think?

At the moment on this thread it seems to be:
-Woke is only used by racists/bigots/Tories/fans of Piers Morgan/ people who don't like their various isms and phobias challenged

• Don't use any word to refer to a particular group because you don't know them
• No answer on how people should refer to a particular group, just in case someone else uses the phrase differently

It feels a bit like trying to remove the language to avoid the discussion

@LolaSmiles If I may use the Karen analogy again, your question is very similar to that of those who use Karen as an insult when they ask how else can people refer to the sort of woman or behaviour labelled as Karen. The answer I usually see from those who oppose the use of it is to call the behaviour what it is, and depending on the poster, I've seen people suggest twat, stupid, aggressive, ignorant, bully and even more colourful words.

Now I'm not suggesting anything seriously here but just laying the similarities down. Cancel culture brigade? groupthink brigade? bigot brigade?...

Cancel culture brigade is good, though it misses some other elements of the group out but it's a good option.

I was reading the Facebook comments on a Guardian article this morning about Nish Kumar and why he thinks some people don't like his jokes. It made me think of this thread because, unsurprisingly it couldn't ve because different people have different senses of humour.

In the comments there's people talking about how they find his comedy condescending, how they find he is sometimes witty but otherwise spends too much time trying to push a limited agenda, how they didn't like like Mash Report because him and the cohost speak about half the country with contempt, and so on. A number of them were people saying they are left wing and find his sort of comedy and conduct to be lazy and divisive, that they don't find anything funny about London-centric socialists telling the rest of us how to think, etc.

The other 50% of the comments were along the lines of "Hmm can't think why...", "Right wing bigots don't like educated asian people", "because the country is bigoted", "gammons can't stand non white being eductard", more comments that the only reason people might not find him funny are because of his skin colour and his left wing views, and anyone who criticises his comedy is obviously a Tory bigot who is a closet racist.

It summed up exactly what many posters are describing on this thread: certain group of people who are incapable of independent thought yelling bigot if anyone expresses a perfectly reasonable view that is outside the group think.

I agree, I've seen similar behaviour on YouTube and it's cringy.

I think I'll actually start using "Cancel culture and groupthink brigade". It's wordy but self-explanatory and covers the behaviour I have a problem with.

Can also go for the "Endlessly offended brigade".

The 'brigade' thing is tongue in cheek for me and only when people are just mouthing off. When it comes to actions that cause people harm in anyway, I think it's minimising the seriousness of the harm by talking about any type of brigade. At that point, it really isn't about calling names or scoring points but seriously condemning individual actions and finding practical ways to support the actual victims.

Cancel culture brigade is good.
How about ‘the polarisers’? That’s what a large part of this is about.

Like that!

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

'The polarizers' is good too - I'll add that to my list of terms as well (if you don't mind) and yes, that's really the crux of the matter.

But be ready to have another thread someday asking who are 'The polarizers' and what do they do