To think you don’t go to University just for the University experience

[CovidSmart]

Many many discussions in our house on university atm.

Two dcs who are convinced (I imagine from what school is telling them) that what is important is to find the Uni where you will get the best experience. Somehow the rest doesn’t seem to matter as

• companies will train you
• you can do whatever you want after that as long as you have a degree/master.

I see university as a way to learn about a subject so you can work after so the subject is important (eg important to learn economic if you want to work in business related fields, engineering to be an engineer etc..).

Both dcs are so adamant I’m wrong that I’m starting to question myself. Not having the experience of the British system doesn’t help (went to uni and started to work in a different country).

Any experience?

I know a lot of people who think like that. I find it a little odd personally, but it's certainly not a fringe view.

I think that ideally it's a bit of both. My DS has one year left in uni where he's studying finance and accounting. He already has a job offer for next spring as a result of an internship he just complete. So that's good, but he's also studied literature, computer science, history and taken some art classes.

Our DD is just finishing her first year at uni and doesn't really know what she wants to do at this point, which is fine with us. Part of the value of uni is to learn how to do research and think critically. I'm sure she'll find her spot eventually.

It may be different here. I'm in the US.

No, I'm 28 and I went to uni purely to become a nurse. Nothing to do with the experience and my first year was spent working in covid conditions and lots of online learning.

However, when I was 18 a lot of my friends loved to various uni's, a former friend even chose a course she had little interest in purely because she wanted the experience. She didn't get a job in said degree topic

The British system sells 'the University experience' as a kind of rite of passage so it sounds like that has filtered through. So, you leave home, you meet friends and probably a life partner, you separate from your family, experience new things, grow up and become an adult. I think personally this is an evolution of the origin of British universities centuries ago as centres of religious training.

The universities also think of themselves as centres of knowledge and places where ideas are exchanged, hence the prestige of research, which us what they are measured on by funders.

Universities as work training or vocational centres is a slightly separate idea but is often why people think they are funded by taxpayers.

All three could be said to be an uneasy mix but at best they merge. My first degree wasn't vocational but I learned abstract intellectual skills and viewpoints that were valuable, and net amazing people full of ideas. My second degree was vocational and probably would have been better as an apprenticeship really.

I don't know actually. When I was younger I thought like you. Now I'm older though, looking back I wish had more of an experience. It's such a short time and life is long. I'm now in my 30s so uni wasn't even that long ago for me (10-15 years) and friends of mine that had more of an "experience" aren't doing any worse than me, mostly they are doing better. I thought everyone around me was wasting time, changing degrees, changing subjects, etc, but now I think, why was I in such a hurry?

It very much depends on the direction they want to go in, but essentially, yes, for lots of 'graduate scheme' career paths you do just need 'a degree' at a certain level to pass the threshold. On the flip-side, this often means that 'a degree' is not enough. You also need work experience, life experience and knowledge of your chosen field to get the job.

Hmmm I definitely thought that way, which I do regret now. But the whole "subject is important" thing you've mentioned is less applicable if what you're interested in is a humanities subject. Most just end up with "transferable skills" from those. What actually seemed to be most important when applying for jobs was actual work experience.

I have 2 DS both at Uni - they were totally in charge of choosing their courses and uni.

It also depends on what you mean by "uni experience": location, support for finding jobs, exact course offered, ratio of academic/practical experience, night life, activity groups, facilities.

Why not let them define what they like and want to stick at?

One of dcs wants to study history.
I have no issue with that tbh. But I’m worried. They know they will never be a teacher. There are so many students doing a degree to end up with a MW job because what they learnt isn’t valued by companies. What company will need someone who knows it all about Henry VIII?

My background is engineering (so is dh) so the idea that they will end up with £40k debt for studying a subject just for the sake of it doesn’t sit well.
However, as someone pointed out, engineering is vocational so probably different.

All the rest (becoming independant, meeting new people) will happen regardless of the subject.

but essentially, yes, for lots of 'graduate scheme' career paths you do just need 'a degree' at a certain level to pass the threshold.

Much better said than my waffle! That’s my worry

I think it is important that you go to a place where you can see yourself living for three or more years.

That may be a campus uni in a town, or it may be somewhere with a big city nightlife offer. It may be close to home or further away. It will vary by student.

But the course is really important too - especially if it is a course with high contact time - if you hate it then that will be grim. You have to choose a subject that really engages you or it will be impossible to get your degree at all.

To be fair, you may not know what you want to do later (I didn't really) in which case choose something of interest and it may lead you somewhere. My DD is doing Eng lit with no obvious career goal linked to it, but she is interested in it, has something to say and hopes to go into publishing, so it makes more sense than, for example, French (another option based on her A levels). She hasn't had much of a uni experience thanks to COVID and other matters but I still think it will be worth it for her.

I would want my dc to go for the experience. Uni isn’t really about training for a job unless you choose a vocational course like nursing IMO. How many 18 year olds even know what they want to do? The growing up, independence, best years of your life thing is just as valuable if not more I think.

I would encourage my dc to choose a uni based on a place they want to live and the opportunities available there, not just the course. They may end up changing course when they get there anyway! Lots of people do.

I would definitely let dc be in charge and not influence them.

I think schools are often crap at careers advice, so I'd take that with a pinch of salt. There are things you can do with 'any good degree,' but also things you can't.

I get that 'university experience' matters to the extent you want to be happy somewhere. IME, though, what a lot of prospective students don't consider are the differences between different courses and modes of assessment. They assume all English degrees, or all History degrees, will be basically the same, and the way degrees are assessed will be pretty standard too.

But it's not like school. If you're a student who really hates exam pressure, choosing a university that has moved over to a higher weighting on coursework might be a good idea. If you chose to study English but violently hate the idea of doing languages, you may not enjoy somewhere that makes you learn Middle English (or other things). Etc. etc.

I would look at those things just as much as 'university experience'. They'll make much more day-to-day difference.

There are two ways to have the Uni experience successfully:

To get qualifications required for a career.

To study something you are interested in.

DH did the first and I did the second. We both went on to good jobs. I had the career.

It's not wrong to do a degree with no idea of what you want to do with it. The experience and the academic rigour are as important as subject knowledge.

It also depends on what you mean by "uni experience"

Well the dcs definition of experience is been able to do their hobby, meeting up with people, location.

Ratio student to tutors, support finding jobs etc... hasn’t entered their mind. (But imo should be part of the selection criteria)

They know they will never be a teacher.

I didn’t choose an English lit degree for that very reason and regret it so much thirty years on.

Most first degrees are not vocational. There’s a lot he could do with a history degree! Historical research, academia, curator, lots of transferable skills into other disciplines. A friend of mine has just taken a graduate diploma in law after a history degree and has a place to train as a solicitor.

@CovidSmart

but essentially, yes, for lots of 'graduate scheme' career paths you do just need 'a degree' at a certain level to pass the threshold.

Much better said than my waffle! That’s my worry

Why is that a worry? That's reassuring surely? Doing history because your dc is interested in the subject is a good thing and means they will qualify for many many many grad schemes - the majority of which do not care less what the degree subject is.

The 'experience' is a happy by-product. And better to go somewhere you like, than somewhere you hate and drop out of.

I definitely went to uni for the experience but this was in 1993 and it was free. I also got a grant. I've never used my degree in any job I've had.

If my kids want to go to uni they can go on the understanding that they will do so in order to get a job. Not piss about like I did. Its far too expensive now.

God I had a good time though 😁

Ratio student to tutors, support finding jobs etc... hasn’t entered their mind. (But imo should be part of the selection criteria)

IMO these things are far less likely to make a difference to their overall happiness in those three years, and that will impact their motivation and success more than anything the uni can offer. Most uni careers advice is fairly token.

Also don't worry about the debt especially if doing something that will lead to a low-paid job! DDs' publishing dream will see her paying off her loan errrr - just about never!

I'm kind of with your children on this one. I'm in my thirties, and went to a Russell Group university and studied history. I got a job in PR straight out of uni and now work for a major consultancy (project management etc). For me, the subject I did didn't really matter, it was about learning to take in complex information, write well, draw conclusions and present this back effectively. Humanities opens a whole range of doors - teaching is just one of them and I only know of one from my course who went down this route. The subject wasn't really that critical but the process of studying and learning was. I also believe the whole university experience did massively prepare me for life and played a big role in helping me in my career - independence, responsibility, forming friendships and relationships etc.

But a History degree will give you analytical skills, the ability to construct an argument, to communicate both through speaking and writing; depending on the area of history DC studies it could also include foreign language skills, economics, art. There's a huge range of possibilities. I graduated with a history degree 12 years ago, and from the cohort in my college there is now:
A venture capital funder
A published author
A civil servant
A medical trial senior administrator
A university director of studies
An international development charity worker
A doctor (she made a big career change!)
A investment analyst

Btw I fully agree you need to chose something you enjoy!

If you study history, you develop skills in critically analysing situations, understanding the bigger picture, reading and research, written communication (and probably presentation skills too) along with group work, communication, critical thinking - you may develop a passion for learning, new perspectives on the world and empathy for a range of people.

Those skills are really valuable for a whole range of jobs - the knowledge may or may not be important to the jobs he does throughout his life - but the skills will be.

A good degree (2:1 or 1st) from a good university will always be valuable and perceived as such by employers. However, once he starts to get an idea of the sector, industry or function he wants to work in, then building up a compelling picture of the skills and interest is has in that sector alongside his study is really important. Internships, placements, part time work, volunteering, overseas study all contribute to employability.

(I am a university careers adviser, and an ex graduate recruiter can you tell )

My daughter is in her 2nd year studying Geography. It was the only subject that she liked enough to study so there was never a decision to be made, just where she studied as she wanted to be in a large town and liked the course, and her particular subject (Human Geography) isn't such a common subject as others. She has grown so much in the last two (albeit weird) years. In her confidence, her life skills, being independent and I can see that she is more ambitious too. You can't study engineering or economics if you find those subjects difficult or boring or don't get the grades. I studied at a Uni close to home so stayed at home - big mistake!