To think you don’t go to University just for the University experience

[CovidSmart]

Many many discussions in our house on university atm.

Two dcs who are convinced (I imagine from what school is telling them) that what is important is to find the Uni where you will get the best experience. Somehow the rest doesn’t seem to matter as

• companies will train you
• you can do whatever you want after that as long as you have a degree/master.

I see university as a way to learn about a subject so you can work after so the subject is important (eg important to learn economic if you want to work in business related fields, engineering to be an engineer etc..).

Both dcs are so adamant I’m wrong that I’m starting to question myself. Not having the experience of the British system doesn’t help (went to uni and started to work in a different country).

Any experience?

If you want a decent London/city job a lot of the time uni is 50% finishing school, 50% qualification (1st or high 2:1, decent uni, subject irrelevant). And an absolute tonne of fun, building a group of people that end up as a network.

I can see that. I doubt that either dcs will....
I will drop the importance of the 1:1 or high 2:1 into conversations.

The experience can be intellectual as well as social. For example, there might be a student philosophy society that invites regular speakers and anyone can go along if they’re interested. Lots of universities have student debating societies and party political groups, or students can get involved in representation on university committees e.g. to report on how their course is run or develop new policies. Library committees often include student representatives. There are lots of opportunities to get involved in how various things are organised. It’s not all drinking and clubbing! Or at least it doesn’t have to be.

@FlyNow

I don't know actually. When I was younger I thought like you. Now I'm older though, looking back I wish had more of an experience. It's such a short time and life is long. I'm now in my 30s so uni wasn't even that long ago for me (10-15 years) and friends of mine that had more of an "experience" aren't doing any worse than me, mostly they are doing better. I thought everyone around me was wasting time, changing degrees, changing subjects, etc, but now I think, why was I in such a hurry?

Very true

Also - unis are generally not great with finding a job because, by that point, you're a grown up and need to navigate these things yourself.

Ratio of students to tutors is irrelevant if your tutor is dreadful. I went to a top 3 uni, small groups, but sometimes the quality of teaching was dreadful where the lecturers were there because of their research/ability to get grants.

History is VERY well respected degree - I'd say a huge number of employers would hire a history grad over an engineering grad.

[quote CovidSmart]@AbsentmindedWoman, how do learn about what sort of culture there is at a specific university?[/quote]
Try reading The Tab, it’s a trashy student publication.

Durham: posh. imperial: never seen a girl. King’s: everyone is super basic. Bristol: lefty and weedy. Nottingham: party central. Manchester: drugs and nightclubbing. LSE: up themselves wealthy. Essex: LADS! St. Andrews: snobs. Edinburgh: low key posh. Glasgow: artsy drugs. UCL: Oxford rejects

“I have no issue with that tbh. But I’m worried. They know they will never be a teacher. There are so many students doing a degree to end up with a MW job because what they learnt isn’t valued by companies. What company will need someone who knows it all about Henry VIII?”

I’m doing a History degree and have no intention of being a teacher. I would like to go into a sector linked to my subject though (heritage). For the most part, however, it’s about transferable skills- which I think a History degree can provide in abundance, alongside relevant work experience.

@CovidSmart

E.g. history at Durham or UCL will get you into being a solicitor training contract just as easily as a law degree

This is where you see you can live in a country for more than 20 years and still miss something.
Sorry it feels just so so wrong to me!! How can you do law wo a law degree

They don't just unleash untrained history grads into the courtroom/boardroom

Am sure a law grad might have some advantage ...but really most jobs unless they're quite specific (doctor, engineer, teacher etc) you can be trained into during a grad scheme.

Eldest dc is just finishing his degree. Even with covid he has got so much more out of university than just his degree. It has widened his horizons in so many ways and he has really grown up and taken responsibility for himself in a way he wouldn't have done living at home. Granted he could have moved away from home at 18 for other reasons or for work but that's not particularly easy for the average teenager.

@FontyMcFontface

I would want my dc to go for the experience. Uni isn’t really about training for a job unless you choose a vocational course like nursing IMO. How many 18 year olds even know what they want to do? The growing up, independence, best years of your life thing is just as valuable if not more I think.

I would encourage my dc to choose a uni based on a place they want to live and the opportunities available there, not just the course. They may end up changing course when they get there anyway! Lots of people do.

I would definitely let dc be in charge and not influence them.

As someone who turned up at a university as a fresher in her 40s I thank my lucky stars that I turned down my place as an 18 year old. I didn't know where I wanted to go in life. I do now and I'm there but to think I could have blown my funding on 'an experience' would have been a huge shame. I have actively discouraged my children from going to university without a clear path. Its a lot of money for enrichment with no clear outcome. There will always be the well connected elite who can read any subject and get on a grad scheme but out of the tens of thousands who go to university every year the reality is very few will end up on one.

@CovidSmart

so if I am doing a summary of what you are saying

• subject as such isn't such an issue as long as you go to a (very?) good university.
• companies will then look at what sort of work experience you have (so part time jobs and placements are a must?)
• university should be chosen according to its culture and evaluation system
• but the main idea of going to Uni is to grow up (even though that one leaves me a bit )
• and the subject as such doesn't matter that much (as long as what you want top do isn't vocational, engineerring, nursing etc etc)

Not quite.

A 'good' university can be good in many ways. Some unis are particularly good in a certain field eg Law or Music and less in another.

Some are reputationally good.

Some are good for some types of students eg quite pastoral & friendly and suited to a type of student.

Part-time work isn't essential. Contributing to the society in some way is important tho (joining clubs & societies, volunteering, giving back)

What matters really is your DC being content, stimulated, happy & enriched. They will do their best work & develop well as a person.

Don't over-think it. Be guided by your DC

[quote CovidSmart]@titchy, what sort of grad schemes are open to students with a history degree?[/quote]
Almost any that aren't science-based!

It depends completely on what you want to do. If you know you want to be something specific, go to the best university that your grades will get you into that is respected in that field and get the required degree. If you don’t know what you want to do, go with the experience.

I didn’t know what I wanted to be. What I want to do has changed over several years. I went to a university that I felt comfortable at. My grades would have got me into a better university but I didn’t feel comfortable there. I did geography, as that was my favourite subject. In my first year, I was exposed to something that I wanted to follow for my career and I did upon leaving. After a few years in my career, I was exposed to different areas. My degree taught me other transferable skills that I was able to use in different areas. My career isn’t on a fixed route, and for some people that isn’t what they want or need but for other people, that allows them the freedom to explore different areas and change careers relatively easily. The history degree might not be vocational but it teaches a wide range of transferable skills. My FIL did a masters in history, he’s MD of a European beach of a global company that is bringing in millions in profit each year. His history degree has done him no harm whatsoever. It was much better that he got an excellent degree in a subject that he enjoyed.

I think it’s about the experience. It’s about finding a place that allows you to realise who you are. To delve into areas you might not have touched on before. I did a history of art module in my degree because it seemed interesting. I also did a module on meteorites because again it seemed interesting. It’s about finding a place where you are comfortable and feel encouraged to develop yourself and your studies.

I will drop the importance of the 1:1 or high 2:1 into conversations.

Please don't do this.

In truth it is easier now to get Firsts & high Second Class honours than it was.

But this is the wrong approach.

Don't pressurise your DC. They should do as well as they are able.

Not everyone comes too, but a good approach & knowledge base, along with extra curricular activity will help.

Of course they should aim to do as well as possible. But that should come from their interest in their course.

Gently OP, you sound a bit over-bearing & also poorly informed. University should not be a machine that churns out a graduate who can just get a high-paying job. Society needs all of us, at our unique best.

Unless your degree is directly related to a career the skills gained are generic. You could gain any of these from the workplace and so there’s no benefit to uni as opposed to , say an apprenticeship and an OU degree.
If you’re academic then the opportunity to delve into a subject matter of interest is worth it!
Uni however gives you time to explore your potential career paths. People I know who got jobs straight after graduating had some internship/extracurriculars. They didn’t didn’t just walk into something (unless it was an in demand degree like Computer Science). Lots of opportunities in fields like technology for various degree grads but you need to have done your research and competition is tough.

I’m in a job completely unrelated to my degree 😇 the degree content has absolutely fuck all to do with the job, but my experience organising parties has... it’s the maturity of being able to deal with people. I know lots who did nothing but study and they’re still unemployed

@EarringsandLipstick, you are in that university environment arent you?

For me, looking at 'at the leadership, check the media coverage or their publication and role on committees' leaves me cold. What is that going to tell me?

Serioulsy, I am all for supporting dcs into finding the right choice of uni but I have no idea what you mean. Again probably because I have no experience of looking at a Uni like this. I can't read between the lines to say 'If Uni A is doing then this means Uni A is '

History and English from a decent uni are solid degree choices.

As an aside, I feel sad that now university is so expensive a lot of humanities degrees are seen as frivolous and not really worth doing.

If kids from lower income families are put off doing both academic arts degrees and also degrees in fine art or conservatoires of music or drama, these courses are just going to be for the middle classes. And jobs in the arts and the media already are already really hard to break into if you don't have family money to support you early on.

Researching unis is 90% about reputation, 10% about checking out the specific department. Where are they thinking of going?

Oddly, when I was young and going to University myself I thought like you. I chose a subject linked closely to my chosen career and based my choice of university on it's reputation in that area. I did get the career I thought I wanted, but I know now (especially after involvement in graduate recruitment for my industry) that as a few pp have said any good grade degree from a well regarded university would have got me there just as easily. If I had done what I would have enjoyed most at the time I would have chosen a campus based university and a completely different subject. I would have still been able to get the job I wanted but it would have given me another area of knowledge to fall back on when I later decided the career was not what I wanted.

I also think the experience of going away to University anywhere and studying any subject can really help young people to mature. It's a very 'cushioned' way to move away from home/family/childhood friends and learn be independent.

Also OP if you’re worrying about their career it’s ok! As long as they think about it , go to career fairs and get some work experience they will be fine!
Lots of people saying ‘my DC never cared and now has an amazing job’ but the ones who didn’t succeed aren’t going to be posting are they? As long as your DC have some idea of what they want to do (no need for cast iron plans) they will be fine :D

Gently OP, you sound a bit over-bearing & also poorly informed.

Well I am sure you have learnt from my posts
that I am not from this country

• the country I am comingh from has a very different aproach
• I know I am poorly informed. That's why I started this theard in the first place.

No need to tell me that.

However, I am concerned for my dcs. I want them to make the right choice so they can have the life they want. I dont care about the subject. I don't care about the Uni. I dont care about the 'university experience'. But I know that understanding the sytsem is crucial to make the right decision.
And unless I am asking question and airing my view (which might or might be appropriate to the UK) i am not going to learn and I am not going to be able to guide my dcs the best way possible.

@CovidSmart

E.g. history at Durham or UCL will get you into being a solicitor training contract just as easily as a law degree

This is where you see you can live in a country for more than 20 years and still miss something.
Sorry it feels just so so wrong to me!! How can you do law wo a law degree

How can you do law wo a law degree

After they're accepted onto one of the training contracts from the big law firms they then have to do a one year full time conversion course or two years part time which is effectively summarising a whole law degree down to just one year (if doing it full time)

Don't pressurise your DC. They should do as well as they are able.

Very british approach and not the way I was brought up.

Having said that, it's not about putting pressure. But just like you need to know you need specific grades to go to Oxbridge, then you also need to know you need specific grades to get to *some of the grad schemes.
That's knowledge and NOT putting pressure on someone. Then it will be up to them to do whatever they want to do.

University is supposed to allow undergraduates to hone their skills in learning a subject to a high level and to be able to apply their knowledge to their interim and final exams. If they really enjoy the challenge of learning and want to extend themselves further, a Masters degree is available after graduation. Along the way they should encounter life experiences that enable them to grow socially and expand their all-round experiences: this is a “freebie” as a consequence of living away from home, having to grow up Etc.
Many graduates don’t end up working in the subject they took their degree in, but their enhanced learning skills will enable them to make their way in other fields and change career later with more ease than those who didn’t have the degree experience.
So no, the life experience is a side-effect of the degree and definitely not the main reason they should be applying.

[quote CovidSmart]@EarringsandLipstick, you are in that university environment arent you?

For me, looking at 'at the leadership, check the media coverage or their publication and role on committees' leaves me cold. What is that going to tell me?

Serioulsy, I am all for supporting dcs into finding the right choice of uni but I have no idea what you mean. Again probably because I have no experience of looking at a Uni like this. I can't read between the lines to say 'If Uni A is doing then this means Uni A is '[/quote]
I am.

I am at a loss as to know how to help further. I thought I was clear.

You'll know about the culture by visiting the University (when allowed), going in their website in the meantime, and checking in general public discourse to see what's said.

There are literally loads and loads of ways to find out if a university is a good fit for your DC.

I even gave an example of a pastoral, smaller university being helpful to some, compared to a more intense, less warm university for another.

Sorry you haven't found it helpful. I still think you are over-thinking it. Can you really not think of a few universities off the top of your head that you can imagine DC1 for example, fitting well into?