To think you don’t go to University just for the University experience

[CovidSmart]

Many many discussions in our house on university atm.

Two dcs who are convinced (I imagine from what school is telling them) that what is important is to find the Uni where you will get the best experience. Somehow the rest doesn’t seem to matter as

• companies will train you
• you can do whatever you want after that as long as you have a degree/master.

I see university as a way to learn about a subject so you can work after so the subject is important (eg important to learn economic if you want to work in business related fields, engineering to be an engineer etc..).

Both dcs are so adamant I’m wrong that I’m starting to question myself. Not having the experience of the British system doesn’t help (went to uni and started to work in a different country).

Any experience?

@CovidSmart

It also depends on what you mean by "uni experience"

Well the dcs definition of experience is been able to do their hobby, meeting up with people, location.

Ratio student to tutors, support finding jobs etc... hasn’t entered their mind. (But imo should be part of the selection criteria)

The DC are making sense on this one.

Unless you have a very specific job in mind, most jobs will just be looking for a degree (the grade does matter, and so does the University, but less so the subject).

@CovidSmart

One of dcs wants to study history. I have no issue with that tbh. But I’m worried. They know they will never be a teacher. There are so many students doing a degree to end up with a MW job because what they learnt isn’t valued by companies. What company will need someone who knows it all about Henry VIII?

My background is engineering (so is dh) so the idea that they will end up with £40k debt for studying a subject just for the sake of it doesn’t sit well.
However, as someone pointed out, engineering is vocational so probably different.

All the rest (becoming independant, meeting new people) will happen regardless of the subject.

What does being a teacher have to do with it? That would be an Education degree or a PGCE surely?

That's a really good point about assessment. DD really doesn't do well in exams and all her yr 2 modules have been assessed by coursework (so, many 3,000 word essays - but that's better for her)

@titchy, what sort of grad schemes are open to students with a history degree?

To a certain extent I think they are right. I chose a university that suited me at the time - i visited some of the big city ones and all the students that showed me round talked about was drinking and clubbing which just wasn't what I was into. I think the university experience would have been pretty miserable for me if I'd gone to one of those.
I agree with @SarahAndQuack that the style of teaching and assessment can vary wildly too. I don't think I realised this when I applied and chose a uni but I did my degree at a uni where you went to lectures and scribbled notes like a looney while someone stood at the front and talked for an hour. There were very lecturers who "engaged the audience" and the rest of the learning was down to reading and researching yourself. I then did a Masters at a different uni where I was blown away by the number of lecture note handouts that were given to us, practically everything we needed to know was printed and given out. That uni also worked on 2 semesters so half your course was over and done with part way through the year while it was still fresh in your mind whereas my degree was end of year exams for everything.
Lots of people just do a subject because they enjoy it and/or are good at it and work out what they are going to do for a job later. Unless you specifically want to do a job that requires a certain degree e.g. nursing, medicine, physio, optometry etc (and there may be other routes into those careers too) then I think should pick the course and location that suits you best.

@SarahAndQuack I think the OP means that history teacher at secondary (for which a history degree would be needed, not an education one - that's primary) is about the only job which demands a degree in history. But as a PP said, there are loads of things which would spring from history - and plenty of options that want simply "a degree". I work in the NHS (non clincial) and roles on my team demand a degree, but would never specify what subject. WE are mostly arts graduates tho!

First off it's not a real debt. I wish this was more well known. It's like a tax, they are not going to make you pay up of you don't earn enough.

I think uni experience - it's a bit of both. Learning a subject and having a stage in life when you can experiment.

I went to a top level uni and people who studied history, English, sociology - all these 'useless' subjects for snapped up by graduate schemes for management consultancies, banks and other big corporate grad schemes, some started on £40k right out of uni. These companies just want you to be smart and have graduated with good marks - they will train you, but they are unlikely to take you on unless you have a degree from a top uni.

Well your both right to a point.
Choosing the right subject is important but unless you’re talking about vocational subjects then a good degree gives good career flexibility.
Most students choose the place rather than the degree.
I know I did, the courses I was looking At were all very similar so the place became the deciding factor.

I personally don't think things like ratio of students to tutors and support in getting jobs are particularly useful.

I have my own thoughts about ds's University plans. I'm interested in what professionals think of the course and the university. I think the peer group is really important- are they likely to be interested in their subjects, hard working, a fair mix of nationalities (obviously harder now). I also think the University funding matters - can they afford good library, tech and lab facilities? Is there an option for a year abroad and/or in industry in the course?

Friends I know with a history degree went on to do law conversion courses and accountancy on one of the big corporate grad training schemes. I also have a friend who does very specialist research and documenting (digging stuff out of archives and piecing stories together type thing) in her historical field and works mainly with historical trusts.

The academic experience ought to be a big part of the whole 'uni experience' . Having said that, the chance to try new hobbies, interests, activities, to meet new people, to live independently and manage workload, time and finances are also part of it.

[quote clary]**@SarahAndQuack* I think the OP means that history teacher at secondary (for which a history degree would be needed, not an education one - that's primary) is about the only job which demands* a degree in history. But as a PP said, there are loads of things which would spring from history - and plenty of options that want simply "a degree". I work in the NHS (non clincial) and roles on my team demand a degree, but would never specify what subject. WE are mostly arts graduates tho![/quote]
Thanks, I realized! I don't know why but I didn't see all the replies before I posted and then saw it'd been discussed.

I don't think you even need a degree in history to teach at secondary these days, do you? Could be wrong. FWIW I'm in a history department at university and I don't have a history degree. Dead useful, though, as PP have said.

As the username suggests, I'm a uni student, and essentially the function of the current system is fundamentally a very expensive (for the country, not necessarily the student) accreditation system, whereby based on the course and the university, employers can get an idea of the quality 9f the candidate based on the perceived quality of the former. If you do a decent degree at a good uni, it is definitely intellectually stimulating, and I'm very glad I've studied economics, as I probably wouldn't have got on my grad scheme otherwise. However its also true that the uni experience is a massive pull, in my case it was a 3 year piss up where I also did some work, amd kind of acts as a finishing school or step between academic learning and a working life. So in my opinion, both a re true, and both are important.

well a degree in your subject is useful if you want to teach it; having said that I taught German and French and I have a degree in German but only an A level in French. Many MFL teachers have one stringer language tho. And no one would take me on (I don't think) to teach only French, or French and Spanish.

@CovidSmart

One of dcs wants to study history. I have no issue with that tbh. But I’m worried. They know they will never be a teacher. There are so many students doing a degree to end up with a MW job because what they learnt isn’t valued by companies. What company will need someone who knows it all about Henry VIII?

My background is engineering (so is dh) so the idea that they will end up with £40k debt for studying a subject just for the sake of it doesn’t sit well.
However, as someone pointed out, engineering is vocational so probably different.

All the rest (becoming independant, meeting new people) will happen regardless of the subject.

You’re completely wrong.

History degrees can lead to all manner of very good graduate jobs. Lots of the traditional, essay-writing, subjects are well respected by top employers. The very best (most prestigious) employers look at university and grade more than subject for many of their roles.

I think you’re right that it’s just the difference between the British system and your home system that is throwing you.

[quote CovidSmart]@titchy, what sort of grad schemes are open to students with a history degree?[/quote]
Most of them. Management, law, accounting...etc.

There are so many graduate scheme you can get onto. I got a 2:1 in law but didn't want to be a lawyer so I would be in the similar boat as your history grad. I got onto a health and safety graduate scheme.

Also you have project management, operations, communications. The best way is have a look at the Times top 100 graduate employers and look at their grad scheme page a and have a wee look at what the companies accept. I bet it'll be more than you would expect.

Unless you're going for vocational e.g. doctor, engineer, nurse then the other ones are pretty flexible.v

The graduate market is incredibly saturated, so they're right to think that jobs and post-grad qualifications, and training is increasingly important. They'll perform better if they are somewhere they enjoy and feel comfortable. Why accumulate that much debt to go somewhere you're not completely happy?

What company will need someone who knows it all about Henry VIII?

Oh God. Please remove 'smart' from your UN immediately 😜

This type of thinking has (or should have) gone out with the ark.

I would always encourage a student to undertake a course of study that appealed to them, excited them, interested them.

If it's History, it's nothing to do with knowledge about specific events that will help them succeed. It will be about the skills of analysis, critical thinking, writing & problem-solving that they will learn.

A good degree from a reputable institution will lead to work opportunities - they'll have their whole life for that.

The idea of the university 'experience' is to marry the academic content with the social & self-growth part - peer learning, social skills, independence.

Not everyone goes to University & there are many more ways to replicate that experience. But for those who do, looking at the holistic experience of a university is very important.

[quote CovidSmart]@titchy, what sort of grad schemes are open to students with a history degree?[/quote]
I'm in Ireland, but here, any.

@Nanniss

The academic experience ought to be a big part of the whole 'uni experience' . Having said that, the chance to try new hobbies, interests, activities, to meet new people, to live independently and manage workload, time and finances are also part of it.

I agree with you.

But that will happen regardless of the subject they chose.
So surely the deciding factor should be something else?

Choosing a uni will be harder this time I think. All the open days are online so there will be no visit of the campus etc...

I studied English Language and Linguistics. I ended up working in PR. The degree got my foot in the door as no one has been employed without one in my office. However, I could have easily done History instead and it wouldn't have made any difference to my career.

However, I think vocational degree grads are often more likely to be higher earners. That's not a set rule though and obviously not everyone cares about earning lots of money.

Certainly for the big accountancy firms / consultancies, subject matters much less than good grades and the skills you pick up along the way doing a degree.

If you can maintain 2:1 grades then maximising the experience is a good thing alongside. Though I would encourage trying new things not just sticking to current hobbies or friendship group.

Worth looking at graduate destinations to see that a reasonable proportion of graduates are getting into jobs or further study - particularly as competition for graduate jobs is likely to be high as the government weans the economy of COVID-support schemes.

But that will happen regardless of the subject they chose.

Well no. Different universities have different cultures and student opportunities. For example, I work at one that's mid-size & located semi-rurally, outside a big city. The culture of the University would be very different to a large university in the city centre.

So each DC has to work out what appeals to them.

So surely the deciding factor should be something else?

The deciding factor should be the whole package - course, reputation, locations, culture.

[quote CovidSmart]@titchy, what sort of grad schemes are open to students with a history degree?[/quote]
A large number of the bankers and lawyers I know studied history at university…