AIBU with my demands from DH?

[Scramblerr]

DH and I have one DS - we've always known we want more than one DC. The first pregnancy was horrendous. I was hospitalised from eight weeks through until I was induced at 39 weeks. I was unbelievably sick, I thought I was going to die and considered abortion multiple times - I was so relieved when I went past 24 weeks and knew I could no longer make that decision (because I knew I'd regret it), I was pretty close to considering suicide. I had HG so was sick all day every day, right up to the end (even in labour), I began fainting and collapsing and had horrendous pains etc.
Skip ahead a few years and we knew we wanted another DC but also knew we weren't going to do the pregnancy thing again - it was the worst thing that either of us have been through. We applied to adopt and were rejected (like the vast majority of people are - there were six of us at our training sessions and all have now been rejected). The adoption agency had issues with our age (in our mid/late 20s so not young parents really but VERY young for adopters because most people who adopt are much older), they didn't like that DH would be taking the parental leave instead of me (simply because I earn more and I enjoy my job more and DH's job has better parental leave allowance), they had issues with DH's weight (he has a BMI of just below 30, but he has a body fat percentage of below 10% and is an athlete - the doctor said he was in great shape but the agency solely care about BMI) and they also had issues with MIL (she was an abusive parent and even though DH has been non-contact for a decade, and so have his siblings, the agency said that abuse is cyclical so he's likely to be abusive because she was). So, adoption is out as an option for us.
Surrogacy is an absolute no-go and so is adopting from abroad - for financial and legal reasons, we simply won't consider these options. This pretty much takes us back to only having pregnancy as an option - and that is what DH would like to do. I think I'm prepared to do it but I have a list of demands, I'm wondering whether my demands are unreasonable.

1. Wait until September to conceive because then I'm entitled to a higher rate of maternity pay from my employer.
2. Once we have had as many children as we choose to have, I'd like to have my breasts reduced and my tummy tucked. I've always had large breasts and after our one son and two years of breastfeeding, they're ginormous - I'm in pain all day every day, have no clothes that look nice and just HATE them. My tummy isn't TOO bad right now but I had some abdominal surgery in recent years too so I think another pregnancy might leave me looking like a deflated balloon.
3. He's got a holiday booked for next February to go skiing - I'd like him to cancel it. I don't know how well I'll be and we have DS to look after now too so I can't really risk him going away.
4. I'd like to give birth in the hospital I gave birth in last time - almost two hours away from where we now live. I simply don't trust the hospitals closer to us having had really awful experiences. The hospital where I gave birth were incredible and I trust them completely. My sister recently gave birth and her care during and after labour was horrendous so I know all hospitals are definitely not remotely the same in the level of care that they offer.
5. I'd like to be induced (like I was last time), which does somewhat help with the logistics of demand 4. I've checked that I'm allowed to give birth in any NHS hospital and choose to be induced as long as I'm at full term so that shouldn't be an issue for the midwife/consultant/hospital etc.

So, AIBU?

Can I ask what local authority you fall under?

Even your preferred hospital might not allow visits at the moment. You know cos of covid?

Which is why I want to be at the specific hospital that I do know does allow this because I've been there before and seen it first hand!

That's really understandable, but (a) are they doing it now with Covid and (b) if that hospital is two hours away from where you live, how often are you and your DS going to be able to see each other? It's not close enough to pop in on the way home from nursery.

I think the the reason you were rejected for adoption is because you lack the understanding of what adoption is to be honest OP, and the different needs/emotional baggage/etc which an adopted child may well have.

I think it's 50/50 at the moment but if I knew that the finances were 100% secure (by waiting until September), that DH would be there for emergencies (the holiday), that my body should (most likely) eventually recover and I could feel normal again (reduction) and that I'd be looked after and supported by people I trust and in a way I'm comfortable (points 4 and 5) then those things would tip the scale.

That's an awful lot of "ifs" tbh. Is your DH pressuring you to have a second child? You shouldn't feel like you have to put your body through that if you don't think you can face it again.

I know, nobody saying OP is a bad parent, but when you have one you hardly see, why want more?
OP, why not have a job where you can see more of your child/ren?
You and dh could do lot's of things to change jobs to those more compatable with family life. Maybe this is what the adoption agencies are looking for.
Mines a boarder and I see far more of her than I ever would have done had she been in childcare for 11 hours.

Or people on this thread could stop shaming other women for having a career because they chose not to have one.

Well I said parents, that includes the child's father, but I think its just a bit of selective reading on your part there. Just seeing what you want to see.

Saying the sibling relationship is massively important overlooks the fact that some can't stand to even look at each other. It's not a reason to have more children. It's fine to want more kids, that's whatever - but don't pretend it's for the benefit of the child already here.

I do desperately want another child - I also very much do not want to be pregnant.

I think that's the crux. I read your later post with all the "ifs" that you'd need to tip it over so that you want the child more than you don't want to be pregnant; and with all the will in the world, I think you'd be incredibly lucky for half of them to come off.

I think it's time for a chat with DH about where he stands on continuing the adoption journey vs not having another child. Like I said before, I do completely agree with him that rejection is hard, I'm the same. But that's a billion times more likely to come together than all the things you need to make pregnancy seem doable for you.

I do wish you all the best with it.

I had hg with my first, and with my second too. The second time was worse, I lost 15% of my body weight by 9 weeks and spent most of the first trimester on a drip. Even on ondastrasen, cyclizine and metaclopomide I was in no way capable of looking after my 3 year old and we ended up needing au pairs, cleaners, extra nursery hours, etc just to keep us all functioning (fortunately we could afford it).

I remember feeling immense guilt that the pregnancy was affecting my dd - she went from having a fun, happy, energetic Playful mum to having a parent who couldn't even crawl off the sofa turn on the TV for her. My pregnancy basically stole me out of her life for around 8 months. Her behavior reflected this, and deteriorated quite dramatically.

I think a lot of your 'demands' are for way in the future. Before considering another pregnancy work with your dh to have a solid plan in place of how you'll cope if you do get hg again (they say it doesn't always happen, but having one hg pregnancy increases the chances of having another one). But yes, a skiing holiday for him in the middle of your pregnancy may not be possible at all.

I'm very grateful to have 2 dc, but the second pregnancy really affected my dhs mental health (there were times he literally thought I was going to die). Think of how he'll cope with seeing you physically wither away with sickness, how your current dc will cope with seeing you so poorly, what family support you have, etc. How normal day to day life will run when you're either in hospital or too ill to open a fridge.

[quote Catkin8]@naunet You can't really think that spending 11 hours a day in a childcare setting, with very little one-to-one attention, is the best thing for a young child? [/quote]
Well, science thinks so...
"nursery attendance predicting higher cognitive functioning"
"beneficial effects of nurseries stem from the influence of peers on children’s development, and not solely from the behaviours of adults"
"very young peers can stimulate and motivate the thinking of toddlers"
"children with less experience interacting with peers and/or unfamiliar adults, and have had fewer opportunities to attempt new ‘tasks’ and equipment, may have been more anxious and less engaged during the testing situations"
"higher vocabulary scores"
"Positive effects were also found for task-related orientation/engagement, which might be considered as a precursor to later attention and concentration skills"
bpspsychub.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1348/026151010X533229?saml_referrer

You do you. No one is judging you for it. But don't waltz around criticising everyone else when the research says that what you're doing isn't the best way to do it.

There’s something in the tone of your op that is unsettling. I don’t mean it as a criticism of you, but this talk of demands and joint decisions doesn’t sit well with me, particularly when at the centre of it is your health and well being.

I firmly believe that both parents have an equal right to veto having another dc. But I don’t for a second believe that a man has an equal say in the decision to have one. My df was very vocal about this - he wasn’t the one putting his health and life on the line so it was not his decision. My dh felt similarly.

I’m not sure if how you’ve written this is just your writing style or a way to organise your thoughts, or actually reflective of your situation. But if I were considering having a baby with a man, I’d want it to be with the kind of man who wouldn’t consider going on a skiing holiday in the circumstances you’ve described. That really shouldn’t have to be a demand imo.

And I would think that a pain-reducing breast reduction would be a priority for my dh, not a bargaining point in a negotiation. Spending money on health isn’t as black and white as “spending money on yourself” and I know if dh was in chronic pain I wouldn’t be planning a skiing holiday.

I really think that you might benefit from some counselling or therapy to work through the traumas of your first pregnancy and figure out where you are in all of this. So far in your posts I can see your role as wife (fairness and equitable), and your role as mother (wanting to provide a sibling) but I’m not really getting a strong sense of you.

There’s something a little strident about the word demand that suggests that you have to fight very hard for your needs to met.

I could be misreading you, and I’m not intending to criticise you, but I am concerned for you.

If you're UK based which I'm assuming you are as you've mentioned the NHS then why are you going via a adoption agency and not via social services.

I can't see them having issues with the above you've mentioned to become second time parents.

My brothers friend is male,27 and single and he's been approved to become a foster carer.

I wouldn't imagine they'd have an issue with a healthy BMI,age,who'll take parental leave etc

OP if you honestly think a young child is better off in nursery 11 hours a day than being with their primary caregiver then you were quite rightfully turned down for adoption.

No, that just tells us that children do better cognitively if they are interacting with other children on a regular basis, not that spending 11 hours a day, 5 days a week is better than say 8 hours a day. There are many ways in which children can interact with other children, it doesn't mean stick them in nursery for most of their waking hours and they will do better in life. Again, I think that's you twisting things to suit your narrative, but like you said, "you do you".

I simply have neither the time or patience to discuss:
a) whether you think I should be having a second child. It's not what I asked and it's none of your business. I have no interest in hearing any more opinions on whether working parents should have children.
b) whether being homeschooled is the best thing for children. Ironically, even from people who have their child at a boarding school? Again, it's not what I asked and I, quite frankly, don't care if you think it's awful that my child is experiencing the world rather than sat in front of the TV.
c) whether I should give up or change my career. My career has nothing to do with anyone here or anything that I asked. No one has even what job I do so it's funny that so many are so certain I need to quit.

If you have an input on what was actually asked or relevant then I'd really appreciate it. I do really appreciate those who have responded to what I asked and raised really valid points (like about why I'm thinking of these as "demands" and about my anxiety about pregnancy and about balancing my fears against what I'm hoping to achieve).

I really just feel that the relentless bashing on things that I didn't ask for comment on and that are entirely irrelevant is a waste of everyone's time and just another excuse to bash other women (what else do mumsnetters do for fun?).

You are asking the wrong questions. The question is could you do it all again exactly the same as last time, if necessary? If the answer is no then another child is not for you. Nobody can predict the future so putting a load of conditions that you can’t guarantee on the scenario is absurd. You need to make this decision as a bare bones decision - you want another baby. It could be the same as last time. Can you hack it? That’s the question.

@MabelPines

OP if you honestly think a young child is better off in nursery 11 hours a day than being with their primary caregiver then you were quite rightfully turned down for adoption.

You have no idea how old my child even is!!!

Gosh OP, what a horrific ordeal. You poor thing

I don’t think any of the things you’re requesting are particularly unreasonable, and some don’t concern your husband anyway. But I think it’s not necessarily helpful to frame the potential pregnancy as something you’re willing to do in return for demands. I think you basically have to decide - do you want a second child enough to go through pregnancy again? If so, then you should do it, regardless of the demands. If not, then don’t do it just because you would be guaranteed a tummy tuck etc after.

I can’t imagine your husband being difficult about anything you’ve suggested as none of them are that outlandish. So if he is, and you have to use pregnancy as a carrot to tempt him to agree, I don’t think it’s a good reason for putting yourself through it.

Sorry you had such a rough time. This is an odd post though - half this stuff has nothing to do with your husband. It all sounds fair enough. But the main question is - given you have to assume you will have a shitty pregnancy, how is your son going to get looked after?

quite frankly, don't care if you think it's awful that my child is experiencing the world rather than sat in front of the TV.

Is that what you'd ds does when he's at hi.e with you then?

I had HG in two pregnancies, the first I wasn't hospitalised and it stopped at 4 months, the second was like you describe, unfortunately I didn't carry to term. I want more kids so much but I know I'm not mentally strong enough to handle the pregnancy (plus my support network sucks) If you know you are then good luck to you, you're a braver woman than I x

Also, why do you keep banging on about home schooling? Who on this thread said that? Apart from you for dramatic affect.

@AnxiousWeirdo

I had HG in two pregnancies, the first I wasn't hospitalised and it stopped at 4 months, the second was like you describe, unfortunately I didn't carry to term. I want more kids so much but I know I'm not mentally strong enough to handle the pregnancy (plus my support network sucks) If you know you are then good luck to you, you're a braver woman than I x

I'm so sorry for your loss. I was always very lucky in my pregnancy that DS was always fit as a fiddle - it was just me that was ill.

@Scramblerr

I simply have neither the time or patience to discuss: a) whether you think I should be having a second child. It's not what I asked and it's none of your business. I have no interest in hearing any more opinions on whether working parents should have children. b) whether being homeschooled is the best thing for children. Ironically, even from people who have their child at a boarding school? Again, it's not what I asked and I, quite frankly, don't care if you think it's awful that my child is experiencing the world rather than sat in front of the TV. c) whether I should give up or change my career. My career has nothing to do with anyone here or anything that I asked. No one has even what job I do so it's funny that so many are so certain I need to quit.

If you have an input on what was actually asked or relevant then I'd really appreciate it. I do really appreciate those who have responded to what I asked and raised really valid points (like about why I'm thinking of these as "demands" and about my anxiety about pregnancy and about balancing my fears against what I'm hoping to achieve).

I really just feel that the relentless bashing on things that I didn't ask for comment on and that are entirely irrelevant is a waste of everyone's time and just another excuse to bash other women (what else do mumsnetters do for fun?).

It's odd OP.

You've spent a lot of time responding to the posters who've derailed your thread with comments about childcare etc.

But you're not answering many of the questions/comments that I & others have asked that are relevant.

I would say again that I think it's weird to base your decision on a strange list of demands, many of which are unconnected to the situation or DH.

Eg breast reduction. If you want it, research it & then discuss the cost with DH. Go for it if you want to.

But how can it be linked to having a baby?

If you would like a baby, then plan around the worst case scenario of severe HG; it appears that you have lots of family support so it could be doable.

Nowhere in your posts to I see a real desire to have another baby. (And I can understand this, based on last time!)