AIBU with my demands from DH?

[Scramblerr]

DH and I have one DS - we've always known we want more than one DC. The first pregnancy was horrendous. I was hospitalised from eight weeks through until I was induced at 39 weeks. I was unbelievably sick, I thought I was going to die and considered abortion multiple times - I was so relieved when I went past 24 weeks and knew I could no longer make that decision (because I knew I'd regret it), I was pretty close to considering suicide. I had HG so was sick all day every day, right up to the end (even in labour), I began fainting and collapsing and had horrendous pains etc.
Skip ahead a few years and we knew we wanted another DC but also knew we weren't going to do the pregnancy thing again - it was the worst thing that either of us have been through. We applied to adopt and were rejected (like the vast majority of people are - there were six of us at our training sessions and all have now been rejected). The adoption agency had issues with our age (in our mid/late 20s so not young parents really but VERY young for adopters because most people who adopt are much older), they didn't like that DH would be taking the parental leave instead of me (simply because I earn more and I enjoy my job more and DH's job has better parental leave allowance), they had issues with DH's weight (he has a BMI of just below 30, but he has a body fat percentage of below 10% and is an athlete - the doctor said he was in great shape but the agency solely care about BMI) and they also had issues with MIL (she was an abusive parent and even though DH has been non-contact for a decade, and so have his siblings, the agency said that abuse is cyclical so he's likely to be abusive because she was). So, adoption is out as an option for us.
Surrogacy is an absolute no-go and so is adopting from abroad - for financial and legal reasons, we simply won't consider these options. This pretty much takes us back to only having pregnancy as an option - and that is what DH would like to do. I think I'm prepared to do it but I have a list of demands, I'm wondering whether my demands are unreasonable.

1. Wait until September to conceive because then I'm entitled to a higher rate of maternity pay from my employer.
2. Once we have had as many children as we choose to have, I'd like to have my breasts reduced and my tummy tucked. I've always had large breasts and after our one son and two years of breastfeeding, they're ginormous - I'm in pain all day every day, have no clothes that look nice and just HATE them. My tummy isn't TOO bad right now but I had some abdominal surgery in recent years too so I think another pregnancy might leave me looking like a deflated balloon.
3. He's got a holiday booked for next February to go skiing - I'd like him to cancel it. I don't know how well I'll be and we have DS to look after now too so I can't really risk him going away.
4. I'd like to give birth in the hospital I gave birth in last time - almost two hours away from where we now live. I simply don't trust the hospitals closer to us having had really awful experiences. The hospital where I gave birth were incredible and I trust them completely. My sister recently gave birth and her care during and after labour was horrendous so I know all hospitals are definitely not remotely the same in the level of care that they offer.
5. I'd like to be induced (like I was last time), which does somewhat help with the logistics of demand 4. I've checked that I'm allowed to give birth in any NHS hospital and choose to be induced as long as I'm at full term so that shouldn't be an issue for the midwife/consultant/hospital etc.

So, AIBU?

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

*Because plenty of children go to school and leave at 7.30 in the morning and do an after school club until 5.30, get home at 5.30. (I did that every day when I was at school and it wasn't unusual). That's an hour different from the time I spend with DS and I'm getting slammed left, right and centre for not seeing him enough. Plus, whilst private schools have longer hours, they do have longer holidays too so we make up a lot of time together then. The only way we'd spend more time together is making him give up his extra-curriculars (that he enjoys and are good for him) or homeschooling*

Home schooling and extra curriculars? He's in full time nursery. How many curriculars can he be doing? And who takes him to them?

He's in a private prep. He has swimming and instrument lessons and he plays a sport. They happen at his "nursery/school" (it's from ages 1-9) so no one takes him.

I know, nobody saying OP is a bad parent, but when you have one you hardly see, why want more?

Sorry but I really don't agree with this.

When I had each of my children they were in nursery 8am-6pm, from four months old, 4 days a week.

I had to work.

And because I worked, advanced in my career, started my own business, they're now 6 and 10 and I'm there to send them off to school and I'm here when they get home. I take afternoons off for the park and walks and playdates and family visits. I work nights in the holidays so we can have day-trips, trips abroad etc.

Life changes, often in unexpected ways. People can have a child when they work 60 hours a week and win the lottery, or get made redundant, the next year. They can have a child as a part time worker and get promoted to a full time, full on, 2 hour commute role.

And even if OP never changes roles, and works 40 hours a week until they are 18 - children don't just vanish at 18! I see my mum twice a week and visit one set of grandparents weekly and the other (pre-covid restrictions) fortnightly.

My single parent mum worked full time shift work when I was growing up and sometimes I went days without seeing her. Now approaching 30, we have a pretty solid relationship and I'm rather happy she went on to have my brother (who lives less than a mile away and who I also see regularly). If she took your advice I wouldn't have a brother (and probably wouldn't be here either!)

Perhaps this odd attitude is so common on MN because apparently everyone moves a four hour drive away from their parents, with the in-laws four hours in the opposite direction. It does explain how every second poster is a SAHM - with no family around to help, it does make working full time in a career problematic. A very middle-class mumsnetty attitude though.

I'm so sorry to hear how poorly you were in your pregnancy. I also had HG and had a very similar experience to you. I mean this in the politest way possible but I don't think anyone can really understand your list of demands unless you have had HG too, I completely understand each and every point of what you have said. If you want to talk about it..I volunteer for the most amazing charity that helps people who suffer from HG please message me.

YANBU to talk to your husband and tell him that if you have a baby you want a breast reduction and you'll need him on board with the financials involved in that. I think it's wise to wait until September, it's not really that far away.

Can he cancel the holiday after you conceive? There's no guarantee you'll conceive by then if you're starting in September. It's a point to bring up that it might be needed.

The last two points are up to you, you can have any kind of care that you need during pregnancy, he just needs to be kept in the loop about it. Totally up to you if you want an induction, and up to you if you want care in the other hospital :)

@Scramblerr

I'm not a troll & have reported your post accusing of being one.

You can easily check my posting history.

I was sympathetic entirely to your predicament. I got exasperated at your unpleasant sneering replies suggesting I hadn't read your answers.

I did. They ignored my points. The chief ones being that your demands do not connect, bar the one about the holiday, to either your DH or the decision to have another baby.

I explained my view several times & came back again, and did so.

And you just got progressively more unpleasant.

@Husky12

I'm so sorry to hear how poorly you were in your pregnancy. I also had HG and had a very similar experience to you. I mean this in the politest way possible but I don't think anyone can really understand your list of demands unless you have had HG too, I completely understand each and every point of what you have said. If you want to talk about it..I volunteer for the most amazing charity that helps people who suffer from HG please message me.

Thank you - that's amazing. I'll message you now.

He's in a private prep. He has swimming and instrument lessons and he plays a sport. They happen at his "nursery/school" (it's from ages 1-9) so no one takes him.

So which is he in nursery or school, because they don't just mix them all up. You said nursery, now it's school and he does extra curiculars inuding playing an instrument.
There are a few things in your posts that just don't make sense.

I've only read your posts, OP.

I started off thinking your "demands" were OTT. But now I think - OK, I get it. You're looking for control over a scary, upsetting thing. None of your "demands" are very outrageous really.

1. Wait until September to conceive because then I'm entitled to a higher rate of maternity pay from my employer.
Very sensible.
2. Once we have had as many children as we choose to have, I'd like to have my breasts reduced and my tummy tucked.
Again, sounds sensible.
3. He's got a holiday booked for next February to go skiing - I'd like him to cancel it.
Can't blame you for feeling this way, but I would maybe see if you could relax on this one, and maybe get some contingency plans in place instead. Nothing about pregnancy is guaranteed - even getting pregnant. But I appreciate your perspective and I think it's not unreasonable - but your DH also wouldn't be unreasonable to ask to keep the booking and roll the dice on this. With contingency support in place.
4. I'd like to give birth in the hospital I gave birth in last time - almost two hours away from where we now live.
I thought this was a bit mad, bit you've explained and you have a plan, so if it can work then why not?
5. I'd like to be induced (like I was last time)
Your pregnancy, your choice.

Good luck, OP. I sincerely hope the next time is easier for you.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

He's in a private prep. He has swimming and instrument lessons and he plays a sport. They happen at his "nursery/school" (it's from ages 1-9) so no one takes him.

So which is he in nursery or school, because they don't just mix them all up. You said nursery, now it's school and he does extra curiculars inuding playing an instrument.
There are a few things in your posts that just don't make sense.

He's in a prep school. The prep school is for children aged 1-9. He started there when he was 1 so we called it nursery and pretty much still do because we never got out of the habit. They start different extra-curriculars at different ages depending on which group they're in (which is pretty much year groups but sometimes they can go up or down depending on their ability etc).

@NoSquirrels

I've only read your posts, OP.

I started off thinking your "demands" were OTT. But now I think - OK, I get it. You're looking for control over a scary, upsetting thing. None of your "demands" are very outrageous really.

1. Wait until September to conceive because then I'm entitled to a higher rate of maternity pay from my employer.
Very sensible.
2. Once we have had as many children as we choose to have, I'd like to have my breasts reduced and my tummy tucked.
Again, sounds sensible.
3. He's got a holiday booked for next February to go skiing - I'd like him to cancel it.
Can't blame you for feeling this way, but I would maybe see if you could relax on this one, and maybe get some contingency plans in place instead. Nothing about pregnancy is guaranteed - even getting pregnant. But I appreciate your perspective and I think it's not unreasonable - but your DH also wouldn't be unreasonable to ask to keep the booking and roll the dice on this. With contingency support in place.
4. I'd like to give birth in the hospital I gave birth in last time - almost two hours away from where we now live.
I thought this was a bit mad, bit you've explained and you have a plan, so if it can work then why not?
5. I'd like to be induced (like I was last time)
Your pregnancy, your choice.

Good luck, OP. I sincerely hope the next time is easier for you.

Thank you :) Although, your name makes me sad. Why are there no squirrels?

@Shoxfordian

I would advise you to enjoy the child you have and not have more children as your first pregnancy sounds really difficult

Same here.

Your child will not be the only 'only child' in the class. I know several including a nephew and a cousin's daughter, they are great young adults. Yours will be too.

Broodiness will hit you from time to time but I anticipate a long, calm period after/if you make the decision to have no more children and you will be able to deal with broody feelings - using heart over head - when they crop up in future.

Good luck to you and congratulations on your lovely child.

Most of your 'demands' have nothing to do with the first pregnancy.
Why does the fact that you were awfully ill have anything to do with your having a tummy tuck and breast reduction??

Being sick for many months in the way you describe is a good reason not to have another. I just don't know what him skiiing and your cosmetic surgery have to do with it. Arranging to give birth miles from home is just a bit daft. Expecting to be induced to facilitate this is unlikely. Hospital would consider the health of you and the baby as the only criteria here. Travelling two hours in labour is just not really sensible nor is having your scans and care so far away.

He's in a prep school. The prep school is for children aged 1-9. He started there when he was 1 so we called it nursery and pretty much still do because we never got out of the habit. They start different extra-curriculars at different ages depending on which group they're in (which is pretty much year groups but sometimes they can go up or down depending on their ability etc).

Just like you did with earingsandlipstick you didn't actually answer wether he's in nursery or school

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

He's in a prep school. The prep school is for children aged 1-9. He started there when he was 1 so we called it nursery and pretty much still do because we never got out of the habit. They start different extra-curriculars at different ages depending on which group they're in (which is pretty much year groups but sometimes they can go up or down depending on their ability etc).

Just like you did with earingsandlipstick you didn't actually answer wether he's in nursery or school

Me: "he's in a prep school" You: "you didn't actually answer whether he's a nursery or school"

I can't really be any clearer babe. Any advice on how I could state any more clearly would be wonderful because I'm genuinely at a loss for how to state it clearly enough that you and Earrings can understand.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

He's in a prep school. The prep school is for children aged 1-9. He started there when he was 1 so we called it nursery and pretty much still do because we never got out of the habit. They start different extra-curriculars at different ages depending on which group they're in (which is pretty much year groups but sometimes they can go up or down depending on their ability etc).

Just like you did with earingsandlipstick you didn't actually answer wether he's in nursery or school

Eh? She literally said "it's a prep school" so how could she be any clearer?

1. Wait until September makes perfect sense to me 2.
2. I'd like to have my breasts reduced and my tummy tucked I think this needs to be a seperate conversation not condition on your furnishing him with children. Can you afford it?
3. holiday... him to cancel it how long is it for? You might not even be pregnant by then
How much will he lose if he cancels now Vs later? Can a family member come and stop with you?
4. give birth in the hospital I gave birth in last time don't think he actually does get to choose where you have medical treatment imo, I think he should respect your choice
5. I'd like to be induced as above. He's entitled to an opinion but he shouldn't be giving you permission to have medical treatment

@Scramblerr I think you're getting a really hard time here. Personally I get the 'demands' as essentially you want to gain some kind of control over your body when you know it's highly likely going to be negatively affected by a pregnancy, and have a reassurance from your DH that he gets how challenging it's going to be.

However, I think this is clouding the actual question and it's far easier to focus on this list than it is to answer the question: can you mentally and physically cope with another pregnancy? And also: why is it ok for your DH to say 'no' to the adoption process because of the effect on his mental health but he would be ok with you risking your mental and physical health for a pregnancy?

@SleepingStandingUp

1. Wait until September makes perfect sense to me 2. 2. I'd like to have my breasts reduced and my tummy tucked I think this needs to be a seperate conversation not condition on your furnishing him with children. Can you afford it? 3. holiday... him to cancel it how long is it for? You might not even be pregnant by then How much will he lose if he cancels now Vs later? Can a family member come and stop with you? 4. give birth in the hospital I gave birth in last time don't think he actually does get to choose where you have medical treatment imo, I think he should respect your choice 5. I'd like to be induced as above. He's entitled to an opinion but he shouldn't be giving you permission to have medical treatment

Thank you for your input - I appreciate it. I agree with you on 4 and 5, I'm just aware that it does impact him (with driving, with it being his child too, with moving away for a while etc) so want to be sure he has no concerns or issues that I haven't considered etc.

Fuck me @Scramblerr people seem to be a bit mean and bonkers today.

Your post and all your responses are measured and reasonable. Of course you can have a child and both work full time, it’s what most people do. We would also be having DH take any future maternity/paternity leave.

So sorry you had a really really really shit and horrible pregnancy. I think all of your demands are fine, and you should absolutely have the surgery if you think it makes you feel better and in less pain. And giving birth in a hospital you feel comfortable is huge, you might change your mind nearer the time if under care of a different team but you can do that any time.

Good luck

It sounds like your first pregnancy was really traumatic, have you considered having some kind of talking therapy prior to trying again? I know people have babies all the time but you talk about feeling suicidal and yet are determined to have another. I'm not saying you shouldn't but maybe its worth talking through with a professional in case you have developed some kind of sense of duty as it was 'The Plan'. I do understand as I often feel upset that we are not having a second but my partner doesn't want any more children and I've been considering some therapy to come to terms with this.

[quote BrioLover]@Scramblerr I think you're getting a really hard time here. Personally I get the 'demands' as essentially you want to gain some kind of control over your body when you know it's highly likely going to be negatively affected by a pregnancy, and have a reassurance from your DH that he gets how challenging it's going to be.

However, I think this is clouding the actual question and it's far easier to focus on this list than it is to answer the question: can you mentally and physically cope with another pregnancy? And also: why is it ok for your DH to say 'no' to the adoption process because of the effect on his mental health but he would be ok with you risking your mental and physical health for a pregnancy? [/quote]
Thank you.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'm aware that the adoption process is harming his mental health and the pregnancy would harm mine. I think if I had the control you mention in the first paragraph then my mental health could cope - and then we could get through it together. I don't think DH would ever expect me to do it if he didn't believe I could so it's just about ensuring I feel secure enough to be ok with the idea.

@SleepingStandingUp

1. Wait until September makes perfect sense to me 2. 2. I'd like to have my breasts reduced and my tummy tucked I think this needs to be a seperate conversation not condition on your furnishing him with children. Can you afford it? 3. holiday... him to cancel it how long is it for? You might not even be pregnant by then How much will he lose if he cancels now Vs later? Can a family member come and stop with you? 4. give birth in the hospital I gave birth in last time don't think he actually does get to choose where you have medical treatment imo, I think he should respect your choice 5. I'd like to be induced as above. He's entitled to an opinion but he shouldn't be giving you permission to have medical treatment

Forgot to say, if DH cancels now then he'll get everything back, but only until October 16th. By then we're unlikely to know if we're expecting or not.

Although, your name makes me sad. Why are there no squirrels?

Because they're evil grey bastards who are plotting to take over the world.

I'm not at all paranoid, no, thank you for asking.

Bloody hell. Social workers are still coming out with than shit that abuse victims becomes abusers themselves ? . So so wrong.

I don't think any of your demands are unreasonable but I would not be demanding them.

@LivingDeadGirlUK

It sounds like your first pregnancy was really traumatic, have you considered having some kind of talking therapy prior to trying again? I know people have babies all the time but you talk about feeling suicidal and yet are determined to have another. I'm not saying you shouldn't but maybe its worth talking through with a professional in case you have developed some kind of sense of duty as it was 'The Plan'. I do understand as I often feel upset that we are not having a second but my partner doesn't want any more children and I've been considering some therapy to come to terms with this.

Thank you. I haven't had any therapy because, with the plan to adopt, seeking any kind of mental health treatment would immediately rule you out. It's something to think about. I think that the first time around, it felt like forever and that I was doomed and that it wasn't worth it. Now I have DS and I see how good he is and how much he is everything that any person could ever be, the months of pregnancy seem like a much shorter time. I think my perspective on it is different. I also think that the first time around, I wanted to end it because I didn't think I was strong enough to get to the end - it wasn't an irrational suicidal feeling. I thought that the pregnancy would kill me so was struggling to see the point in extending my suffering. Now I know I can get through it.