To ask everyone in the UK to watch this NI documentary

[NornIronKid]

You will (hopefully) be aware of the Ballymurphy Massacre, that has been in the news this week, when innocent civilians were killed by British soldiers in 1971. It has taken 50 years for the victims' names to be cleared of any wrongdoing.

There has been a lot of posts on here mentioning NI over the past years due to Brexit, and it has become clear that many people in GB are not aware of the history. This documentary is from 3 years ago and now showing again on Ch4 - it is a long, difficult but important watch

www.channel4.com/programmes/massacre-at-ballymurphy

@yodaforpresident

I think it’s appalling that we weren’t taught any Irish history in state schools until A level (which obviously people self selected into). I can tell you plenty about English history though, not even Scottish or Welsh, so I can’t even say it was British.

We were taught Irish History at my English comprehensive in the late 80s - it was a module on the history GCSE in those days.

That's interesting @Arbadacarba. What was covered in the module?

@DioneTheDiabolist I believe it was framed as 'The Irish Question' and it took us through the origins of division in Ireland going back to the 17th Century, Oliver Cromwell, William of Orange etc. and then focused heavily on the early 20th Century - the Easter Rising and Lloyd George's partition. We were also encouraged to look at what was going on contemporaneously (1989 - 1990) and collate newspaper articles - and to debate the merits and demerits of the different things that were being mooted as part of the peace process.

It was a very interesting module, especially as it helped me to understand much better what was happening 'in the moment'.

The IRA were Involved in the ballymurphy massacre, they were there shooting along with loyalists and the army. The IRA refused to cooperate with the enquiry. What does that tell you.

@Tootsey11, where did you get that information from?

@Covidworries
Great post

I suspect @Tootsie11 can't respond because that post is a bigoted bare faced lie.

According to the inquest report, there was IRA activity in the area. But this does not justify the killing of the 11 innocent victims.

[144] The Coroner was satisfied that there was some IRA activity in the area. The Coroner could not say how many IRA gunmen there were but there was evidence of some presence and that they shot at the Army. That being so, the Coroner was satisfied that the military were justified in using force.
[145] There was, however, no justification provided by the Army for the shootings of the four deceased.

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ballymurphy-massacre-inquest-coroner-s-findings-on-victims-deaths-1.4562245
This is difficult to read but gives a little more understanding as to why the families could never move on until the truth was acknowledged.

For those who are interested and want to know more about this, RTE Player, late late show last night had a piece with the survivors. Well worth a watch.

Shove your documentary, where’s the one on the Birmingham pub bombings from almost 50 years ago. You lot want only one side held to account

@DHdweller
What are you talking about?
Can you really not understand that one of the security arms of the state cannot just massacre innocent people without being held to account?
Not to mention that 6 innocent men spent years in prison following their wrongful convictions for the Birmingham pub bombings.

I’m irish, living in uk and have a few very educated friends who think thought ireland was part of the uk. It also bothers the hell out of me when people ask if I’m from the North or south of ireland, it just shows the ignorance- Northern Ireland has six counties all in the north which are ruled by Britain, the rest is part of the Republic of Ireland with counties all over even in the north.

@nimbuscloud what’s that got to do with the Birmingham 6, they know who bombed Birmingham they’ve been named loads of times, 2 of them are dead. Where’s our inquiry. Scum

Nanny most people in England do not think Ireland is part of the UK however. Your friends cannot be particularly educated if they think it is - there has been loads of publicity of British people with an Irish grandparent getting an Irish passport - most people know Ireland is not part of the UK (although it was when my Irish ancestors moved to England in the 1800s).

It is always useful if people learn history properly and TV programmes can be a good way of learning too so we never make the mistakes of the past.

There are very strong views about a lot of these issues (never mind the Israel Palestine and much else). All we can do is try to stick to basic principles in life - be kind to others, thou shalt not kill etc.

@DHdweller

Shove your documentary, where’s the one on the Birmingham pub bombings from almost 50 years ago. You lot want only one side held to account

FFS "Your side"

I don't have a side.

I want our army held to account for murdering people

Is that really so hard to grasp?

@DHdweller

Shove your documentary, where’s the one on the Birmingham pub bombings from almost 50 years ago. You lot want only one side held to account

I'm glad you brought that up DHdweller. You can find documentaries about that particular case and the torture used by the British government to knowingly imprison innocent people. Might I suggest you search YouTube? Right now we're talking about Ballymurphy if you want to join about that.

Shove your documentary, where’s the one on the Birmingham pub bombings from almost 50 years ago. You lot want only one side held to account

There are documentaries about this, there is a film, Who Bombed Birmingham? it's on YouTube. There is a book, Error of Judgment: The Truth About the Birmingham Pub Bombings

I was about to say there is no real link, but there is, the British establishment did not (and maybe it is true today) see NI Catholics as full human beings. It didn't matter if the army used them target practice or the police arrested them and the state prosecuted them knowing they were innocent.

And you might think, "Oh this is NI, it has nothing to do with me" but it does, when people are seen as 'less' then the state can, literally, get away with murder and with other behaviour you would normally associate with a Junta.

This is Hillsborough, this is Orgreave, this is the Shrewsbury 24.

"You lot" - tell me @DHdweller, how many other nationalities or ethnicities would you be happy to refer to like that?

I personally favour investigating all the crimes of the Troubles, although I know smarter and more informed minds than mine take a different view and so I'm happy to go with them.

But the taxpayer put those guns in those men's hands. It's not a crazy thing to think they should have used them for purposes other than murdering innocent civilians.

Define who exactly is "you lot". I agree with the op and I live in a predominantly loyalist town and my Dad was in the Army during the troubles.

@DHdweller

Shove your documentary, where’s the one on the Birmingham pub bombings from almost 50 years ago. You lot want only one side held to account

'You lot'? Wtaf.

I'm really not happy with the insinuation on this thread that if you think an army shouldn't be murdering their own citizens they're paid and trained to protect, then you must be an IRA supporter. Again, wtaf.

Imagine police/army going into an area in England with a high population of Muslims and shooting dead numerous innocent people, male and female, aged 19-49, and one of them an Imam. Just for being in that area. And the reason given is that because they are Muslim, they are terrorists. Would that be ok?

@RuggerHug

For those who are interested and want to know more about this, RTE Player, late late show last night had a piece with the survivors. Well worth a watch.

Thank you, I'll have a look for this

@Tootsey11

The IRA were Involved in the ballymurphy massacre, they were there shooting along with loyalists and the army. The IRA refused to cooperate with the enquiry. What does that tell you.

Do you have a source for this? I have never read anything that suggests there was IRA/Loyalist involvement, in fact as far as I'm aware the inquest rejected the notion there was