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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask everyone in the UK to watch this NI documentary

326 replies

NornIronKid · 13/05/2021 10:08

You will (hopefully) be aware of the Ballymurphy Massacre, that has been in the news this week, when innocent civilians were killed by British soldiers in 1971. It has taken 50 years for the victims' names to be cleared of any wrongdoing.

There has been a lot of posts on here mentioning NI over the past years due to Brexit, and it has become clear that many people in GB are not aware of the history. This documentary is from 3 years ago and now showing again on Ch4 - it is a long, difficult but important watch

www.channel4.com/programmes/massacre-at-ballymurphy

OP posts:
MissMarks · 14/05/2021 22:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StoneofDestiny · 14/05/2021 22:47

It has always been acknowledged that the IRA and Loyalists were terrorists

Loyalist Paramilitaries UDA, UVF etc

blubberyboo · 14/05/2021 22:49

Some of the responses on here are downright disgusting. Please don’t confuse normal people with terrorists.
And less of the whataboutery. We all know what the IRA and loyalist terrorists did and the majority of people here are just as disgusted with them.

But this needs highlighted for what it was. The British Army randomly shooting innocents just because there was unrest nearby in and around those dates.

Put it this way... recently there was civil unrest in Bristol with the Kill the Bill protests. Now what would you all be saying if the army weighed in the next day and just shot a few British people in Bristol just because they happened to be walking about

And then next day plastered on the news that they were shot because they were suspected members of ISIS

What on earth would you say to their families? Let it go and move on?
Would you?
Northern Irish people aren’t subhuman aliens from another planet. They are UK citizens and this is what the British army did

MindtheBelleek · 14/05/2021 22:52

@MissMarks

Very few comments on this graph.
What kind of clincher do you believe that graph contributes to this discussion?
MissMarks · 14/05/2021 22:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GrinchTastic · 14/05/2021 23:10

With regards to the Prevention of Terrorism act- yes it seems in our current world horrendous- but this was not a normal time.

That’s not the Prevention of Terrorism Act. That’s the Special Powers Act, which was introduced in 1922 by the NI govt as a piece of emergency legislation, renewed every five years, and lasted in perpetuity until 1973 and direct rule.

So long before the “anarchy on the streets” which you seem to think justifies such repression.

wotchhha · 14/05/2021 23:13

Very few comments on this graph.

What's the graph got to do with the British Army shooting innocent civilians?

MissMarks · 14/05/2021 23:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MissMarks · 14/05/2021 23:16

The graph is in response to all the posts about ‘knowing our Irish history’ which to me seem quite offensive and as if those of us who don’t agree with a republican view are all stupid.

RuggerHug · 14/05/2021 23:16

The army provided the UVF etc with weapons, the IRA were a result of the atrocious acts committed by that 'side' if you want to use those terms. But you're going for whataboutery. We're not talking about terrorist groups, we're talking about an army deliberately killing innocent people. Getting medals and pensions and honour for it. The truth finally being confirmed and acknowledged for the victims families and being made public. That's the conversation here. People saying they don't know and want to know more and learn is wonderful. People saying No no no, look over here and other things, is dismissive and irrelevant to this conversation.

TrishM80 · 14/05/2021 23:16

MissMarks
"What would you do differently?"

Not execute innocent unarmed civilians and smear their names and reputation for 50 years. How's that for "doing it differently"?

MissMarks · 14/05/2021 23:18

Ballymurphy was horrific and the victims deserve an apology and convictions for the perpetrators.

MissMarks · 14/05/2021 23:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StoneofDestiny · 14/05/2021 23:20

Given this context- how should the government have tackled terrorism? What would you do differently?

They should have acted to remove the root causes that enabled terrorist groups to thrive. They thrived in ghetto areas, areas of high unemployment and poor opportunity. They thrived amongst people who felt disenfranchised and who felt their voices were not heard. They thrived on stories of unresolved atrocities.

Today it's tribal loyalty stuff, but deep rooted in the past and feeding off stories of injustice and feelings of betrayal told from parent to child. Gangs involved in illegal activity, often terrorising the people they live amongst.

Education is essential. Employment is essential. Fair policing, fair allocation of resources and constant dialogue with and between communities.

MissMarks · 14/05/2021 23:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wotchhha · 14/05/2021 23:39

@MissMarks What would you have done to stop the loyalist atrocities?

TrishM80 · 14/05/2021 23:46

But can you not see Miss Marks, that events like Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday greatly exacerbated the conflict and acted as the biggest recruiting propaganda the IRA, who I fucking hate also by the way, could ever hope for. After those events, thousands of people joined the IRA who would have probably never done so otherwise.

Did the Paras seriously think "let's go in and randomly shoot up a few Catholic neighbourhoods, that'll make the situation better". Deranged.

RuggerHug · 14/05/2021 23:55

I mentioned it upthread but if anyone who's on this or just reading it wants to watch something that shows an accurate, honest programme about this being neutral, RTÉ Player, shooting the darkness. It's a show with press photographers from then that took a lot of the 'famous' images from the time. They were documenting what went on but on a day by day basis without bias. I don't want this to descend into who was to blame side taking. Anyone that shot a child has blame. Anyone that deliberately hurt innocent people has blame on them. The families of those victims finally has some form of justice for them. Don't taint it.

NornIronKid · 15/05/2021 00:26

@MissMarks

The graph is in response to all the posts about ‘knowing our Irish history’ which to me seem quite offensive and as if those of us who don’t agree with a republican view are all stupid.
Can you clarify what you mean by 'republican view' please?
OP posts:
Covidworries · 15/05/2021 01:27

It is all very well saying both sides need to move on....
Imagine your home, one day someone comes and says sorry this is ours now. We will allow you to live in a small shed. As a bonus we will pay you to wait on us. It wont be much because lets be honest you live in a horrid basic shed and you arent very refined like us so really you should bow to our superior culture. Ih you arent happy... well i could just report you for your attitude. Remeber what happend to the family down the street. Glad thats sorted, but you need to be more grateful for all the opportunities we provide (shack with huge rent, tiny wage, hard graft -but honest graft that will straighten out your morals). If caught using the language of the area you would be punished. Street names were changed to be more 'appropriate'. The schools would have to teach about thw superior new people and the feral others. Anyone speaking out was risking their and their families safety.

Some people fight against this, but they are overpowered, others accept there is nothing they can do. Those who try and fight back cause retaliation on those who tried to live in peace.

Generations later, the property never returned to the original owners. No appology for what was taken, no recognition of the oppresion.
No accountability for what was done in government name.

If this was you, would you move on.... jolly good show governor you were right my family didnt deserve what they had, those richer people were right to just take what they wanted. Hmm

Maybe an acceptance that England never should have helped themselves to land in NI, Scotland and Wales. They never should have forced their will on these countries. The danaged caused is still impacting today. The languages were oppressed.

I never really thought of it growing up, but now i see it. Now the comments like why teach welsh, no one uses it now days (well why ?) Why do scotland want to change things and be independent (well they didnt get the choice to become dependent, this was forced upon them through invasion). Why do NI want to bring up the past, there dead now nothing will change that. True but the hillbrough disaster would be the same, but there has been acountability and answers now. Dont the people of BI deserve the same respect.

People can move on, once the truth is in the open, people can not move on while the truth remains hidden,/obscured or twisted. Im sure if you speak to people involved in hillbrough disaster they would agree. Having the truth has aided healing and provided some closure, although the past should not and can not be forgotten.

When Germany lost the war, the attrocities were laid bare and condemed. The difference here is England never lost the war and the war crimes have never been laid out for all to see and judge.

Mintsmints · 15/05/2021 04:06

Some of the replied on here disgust me. It was murder pure and simple. That regiment was rotten to the core

RuggerHug · 15/05/2021 08:41

Covidworries well said!

NornIronKid · 15/05/2021 11:49

Great post @Covidworries, thank you

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 15/05/2021 12:16

In 1969, 16 people were killed in the Troubles.
In 1970, 26 people were killed.
In 1971, 171 were killed.Shock 12% of all civilians killed in 1971 were murdered by 1Para in the Ballymurphy massacre.ShockShockShock No one was investigated, no one was disciplined. In January 1972 (5 months later), the murderers of 1Para went on to murder another 14 innocent, unarmed civilians in the Bloody Sunday massacre.

In 1972, 476 people were killed in the Troubles. The worst year for deaths.Sad

This is not a republican view, this is knowing your history.

Bloodypunkrockers · 15/05/2021 13:19

@MissMarks

The graph is in response to all the posts about ‘knowing our Irish history’ which to me seem quite offensive and as if those of us who don’t agree with a republican view are all stupid.
What's a republican view?