Why is MN so horrible to SAHMs?

[Sweak]

I'm sure this will go down like a lead balloon, but it's been bothering me.

Every post I see written by a sahm, no matter what her issue is, has at least 5 posters telling her she must get a job Or implying she's lazy and even worse 'contributes nothing.'

Lots of posts under the guise of telling women they need to protect themselves financially are criticising this choice (not always but many). I would never dream of criticising a mother for working so why is it acceptable to criticise those who decide to stay at home to be with their children? (I claim zero benefits fyi in case that's a suggestion). I accept that a very very long period out of work will leave you vulnerable if you split due pension, but 5 years or so? The pre school years...I don't think so. Obviously being a sahp is only going to work if you have a decent partner who shares income.

And finally so many posters implying that by being a sahm you are making it basically impossible to be employable ever again unless you run the PTA!

Full disclosure...I'm a sahm, and have been for four years, but I've decided to return to work. I've secured a job for sept (teacher), and got the second job I had an interview for so the suggestion sahm are making themselves unemployable for having a few years out doesn't ring true! However due to MN my confidence about getting a job was so low.

Can't we just support each others choices in life even if they differ to our own?

@Sunflowers095
For as long as women get choose to stay home or work, and men are expected to work, true equality won't exist
For as long as unpaid caring work is devalued and career breaks to undertake said care work are penalised heavily then your statement is correct. Not adding these additional caveats though implies that there is no other way, that women must mimic men in order to achieve equality. Why can't men and women be supported to stay at home with their children or go to work? Why isn't this the default way to achieve equality rather than women have to sacrifice their desire to stay at home with their children?

Men who grow up in households where there's a SAHM tend to go on expecting their partner to do all wife duties/home duties because of the example set at home
It has been proven time and time again that women do more housework and childcare irrespective of whether they work or not. Men who grow up in a household where they see a mother that works outside of the home the same hours as a man and does the majority of the unpaid domestic work and childcare will expect their partners to do this. Is this really better than the SAHP example? Personally I think that a family model that demonstrates equality of effort/leisure time and respect is what's important, not just that two parents work outside of the home.

For as long as women get choose to stay home or work, and men are expected to work, true equality won't exist. Men who grow up in households where there's a SAHM tend to go on expecting their partner to do all wife duties/home duties because of the example set at home.

I am sorry, WHAT?

If you ever feel threatened by someone else different lifestyle choice, it's entirely on you.

Blaming SAH women for inequality is one of the most ridiculous thing I have heard.

l honestly can't see how having a few years out of the workplace really makes you hugely vulnerable....surely if things start to go wrong with your partner you just find a job

This surely can’t be a genuine comment!

Not sure if I’m going over old ground as haven’t rtft but going back into teaching is not the same as going back to work for most people. For a start your qualifications are likely to be relevant, and secondly there’s a shortage of teachers.

As someone who has done both SAHP and WOHP, I agree with most of the MN sentiments and I wish I’d known more before leaving my job after DC1. I wouldn’t necessarily have done anything different, but I wish I’d known more.

@noworklifebalance

l honestly can't see how having a few years out of the workplace really makes you hugely vulnerable....surely if things start to go wrong with your partner you just find a job

This surely can’t be a genuine comment!

A very poorly-thought out comment from someone with the luxury of a degree and professional qualification in a sector that people are fleeing like rats from!

I've just been reading an AIBU thread on retirement/pensions and I swear I've read every argument on there a dozen times previously.

I think I've reached peak Mumsnet. Farewell cruel board

I just ignore them.
I was a SAHM for 4 years, worked for a year while husband was a SAHD and now I’m pregnant and a SAHM again (as of this week), possibly for another four years.
I’m very comfortable in my choices and confident my husband and I have made the best decisions for us all as a family.
I couldn’t give a monkeys what other people think of me. I’m happy. My husband is happy. My kids are happy.

YANBU that some posters are horrible to SAHMs(probably stems from jealousy), but others just want to highlight the potential pitfalls - usually from expeirence and others don't care about what others do if it works for them.

YABU to suggest 5 years is not a long time out work though. I'm not saying it's impossible to get back into work, but 5 years is a long time.

For as long as unpaid caring work is devalued and career breaks to undertake said care work are penalised heavily then your statement is correct.

Even paid caring work is massively undervalued and underpaid. Childcare, some jobs in education, actual carers or HCA etc.

I work as a TA . A friend's husband asked if I'll get a real job once DD is at secondary. A lot of people think of it as a "pin money " job or a "couldn't find anything else" job.

Yes the money is shit, but I actually love my job and it's not exactly easy or all sunshine and rainbows.

[quote Bumpitybumper]@Sunflowers095
For as long as women get choose to stay home or work, and men are expected to work, true equality won't exist
For as long as unpaid caring work is devalued and career breaks to undertake said care work are penalised heavily then your statement is correct. Not adding these additional caveats though implies that there is no other way, that women must mimic men in order to achieve equality. Why can't men and women be supported to stay at home with their children or go to work? Why isn't this the default way to achieve equality rather than women have to sacrifice their desire to stay at home with their children?

Men who grow up in households where there's a SAHM tend to go on expecting their partner to do all wife duties/home duties because of the example set at home
It has been proven time and time again that women do more housework and childcare irrespective of whether they work or not. Men who grow up in a household where they see a mother that works outside of the home the same hours as a man and does the majority of the unpaid domestic work and childcare will expect their partners to do this. Is this really better than the SAHP example? Personally I think that a family model that demonstrates equality of effort/leisure time and respect is what's important, not just that two parents work outside of the home.[/quote]
The issue is that even if equal support was available, most men still wouldn't want to stay at home.

Children are a lifestyle choice. If someone takes a career break for any other reason (which would also be a lifestyle choice) they'd be in the same position.

It's difficult to value unpaid caring work, when it's a result of somebody's choice and when realistically almost anyone can have a child and look after it. Navigating being a provider throughout the child's life is much harder, therefore it holds more value. Most working parents could look after their kids full time if needed, but how many SAHP could step up to being the sole provider?

It's just factual, and while I understand possible upset, we need to be realistic.

@TheLastLotus
people taking time away from work aren’t ‘penalised’ rather it’s the need of the job market. If you had loads more qualified candidates then obviously the ones who have spent less time working go to the bottom of the pile. But if you’re in a field with a shortage then people even with outdated experience can get considered.
Also promotions work the same way. If you have spent more time working (on the right things of course) you have more experience, ergo you get promoted more quickly. Of course this varies depending on the job, and I can only speak for my field and experience
Yes I understand and accept your point, taking time away from a career will naturally mean you don't necessarily have the most up-to-date experience or skills so there will be some penalty to pay, however my argument is that taking career breaks disproportionately disadvantages people.

Employers view gaps in CVs as suspicious, especially if you took time out to care for others. The skills and experience gap that is seldom seen as an issue for young bright graduates or people changing careers into new industries is often seen as insurmountable for SAHPs.

Where a SAHP has a decent amount of experience prior to taking their career break (say for 5 years), this all to often counts for nothing and the expectation is that a SAHP should start again. However if an employed person was to reference work they did in a job 5 years ago then this would at least be acknowledged alongside their most recent work. Again, I wouldn't expect the SAHP to be treated as if they had up-to-date experience, but to completely ignore previous experience simply because they have had a career break is over penalising them IMO.

You have a profession so it’s a lot easier, lot harder when mums give up their career and struggle getting back into on the career ladder. I have no objection to SAHM’s, even though it’s not anything I ever wanted, I do think you need to protect yourself especially if unmarried and given up your career and pension

Jealousy.

Pure and simple. It's isn't anymore complicated than that.

I don't buy that anybody on MN has 'concern' over a random stranger from the Internets financial situation. That's just nonsense.
Plain old fashioned jealousy dressed up as 'concern.'

@StopCryingYourHeartOut

Jealousy.

Pure and simple. It's isn't anymore complicated than that.

I don't buy that anybody on MN has 'concern' over a random stranger from the Internets financial situation. That's just nonsense.
Plain old fashioned jealousy dressed up as 'concern.'

Jealousy over what though?

Some people like having their own income. Enjoy their careers. Like being around adults most of the day.

Other people want to be with their kids. Aren't career driven. Like being homemakers.

That doesn't mean one is more jealous of the other since they're very different lifestyle choices. Did you not think about that?

“ Most working parents could look after their kids full time if needed, but how many SAHP could step up to being the sole provider? “

That’s a bit like asking how long is a piece of string, isn’t it? How much much does the “sole provider” need to provide? £25k or £250k? I think most people could “navigate” an average wage job. Also, how many children are involved in the full-time parenting - 1? 6? Any SN? It totally depends in the job, the children and the temperament of the parent.

@StopCryingYourHeartOut

Jealousy.

Pure and simple. It's isn't anymore complicated than that.

I don't buy that anybody on MN has 'concern' over a random stranger from the Internets financial situation. That's just nonsense.
Plain old fashioned jealousy dressed up as 'concern.'

I was a SAHM. I could've stayed a SAHM for a lot longer as there wasn't ever any pressure for me to return to work.

No jealousy here.

@noworklifebalance've @howishouldbeihave already clarified it's certainly more likely to be easier for someone in my position.

However I do also know of previous sahms who have returned following a relationship breakdown to work, with no trouble, as they were willing to do anything.

So whilst you might not get the job you left back, to suggest you find it impossible to find work is an exaggeration.

Think through the decision to be a SAHM (or WOHM), make a conscious choice all good, crack on.

Drift into being a SAHM without thinking about it - particularly if you haven’t got good qualifications, good work experience, a supportive husband - then you do put yourself at a greater risk of being left up shit creek. Particularly when ‘DP’ wants to get married but not yet... then fucks off

@Sunflowers095 I mean there are posters whose entire goal of being on the forums are to pull people down. But most of the posts from SAHM (that I’ve seen on here) are related to issues they have with their DH. Which is why these posters in these situations should not have become SAHM. If you’re a happy one with a proper SAHM worthy DH you’re not going to be posting are you?!?!?
@MeetMeAtTheMuseum aren’t you the poster who posted about needing a job after 20 years as a SAHM and kept snipping at posters...? It’s probably for the best that you keep away from AIBU 😂

However I do also know of previous sahms who have returned following a relationship breakdown to work, with no trouble, as they were willing to do anything

Not great though is it. Their former DH/DP didn’t have to scrabble round for a job.

I was a SAHM. I could've stayed a SAHM for a lot longer as there wasn't ever any pressure for me to return to work.

No jealousy here.

Good for you. You won't be one of the ones with the faux concern for SAHM's then.

The ones with the bitching and faux 'concerns' are the ones I believe have the deeper motive, which is usually jealousy, which is behind most things.

I too have been both a SAHM and a working mum and enjoyed both.

@Cam2020

YANBU that some posters are horrible to SAHMs(probably stems from jealousy), but others just want to highlight the potential pitfalls - usually from expeirence and others don't care about what others do if it works for them.

YABU to suggest 5 years is not a long time out work though. I'm not saying it's impossible to get back into work, but 5 years is a long time.

I really don't think 5 years is though. Say you had two, or even three kids in that five year period..you could potentially have been on maternity leave for two or three years of that time anyway! No one would bat an eyelid to that

I don't think it's jealousy at all, why and what is there to be jealous off.

However, as a long time sahm I don't/ didn't like to spend time with the kids, nor was I a homemaker really, that was more dh.

@StopCryingYourHeartOut

Jealousy.

Pure and simple. It's isn't anymore complicated than that.

I don't buy that anybody on MN has 'concern' over a random stranger from the Internets financial situation. That's just nonsense.
Plain old fashioned jealousy dressed up as 'concern.'

I agree with this.